Contradictions: Religion vs Science

[Dovada]

If we were discussing any subject other than religion, the masses would agree you should be institutionalized as a crazy delusional lunatic. However, since the topic at hand is belief in a deity, your thoughts are granted special deference and undue acceptance, and are shared among the majority. Oh... what a world.

Did they not crucify Jesus because he told them exactly how it is?

 

Mark chapter 15 verses 13-14:

13. So they cried out again, "Crucify Him!''

14. Then Pilate said to them, "Why, what evil has He done?'' And they cried out more exceedingly, "Crucify Him!''

[iNow]

[John Cuthber]

I speak from my own experience with the Father. When you start to read the bible the visions that explain its meaning will also start.

 

So you are delusional then?

Have you discussed this with your doctor?

[Dovada]

So you are delusional then?

Have you discussed this with your doctor?

The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control. It is far more powerful than you can ever realize. Do you believe in mental telepathy or other similar activity?

 

These comments you make only express your young childish outlook. I feel it is you who may be deluded. Did not God see you coming here.

 

2Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 11-13:

11. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

12. that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13. But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

[John Cuthber]

"The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control."

Speak for yourself.

" Do you believe in mental telepathy or other similar activity?"

Of course not.

" Did not God see you coming here."

No.

[iNow]

The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control.

This sounds like a very common myth that has repeatedly been demonstrated as false. According to what evidence are you making this assertion? You're welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

[Tres Juicy]

 

You will not find the knowledge of God in the teachings of the churches.

 

 

So whats the point of them?

 

Where do you find it?

 

It sounds to me that you're just making stuff up

 

You're basically saying that everyone else is wrong and you are the only person who knows the truth about god

 

Do you realise how crazy that makes you sound?

[dimreepr]

The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control. It is far more powerful than you can ever realize. Do you believe in mental telepathy or other similar activity?

 

These comments you make only express your young childish outlook. I feel it is you who may be deluded. Did not God see you coming here.

 

2Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 11-13:

11. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

12. that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13. But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

 

 

Given the problems such a large brain presents, why is it that evolution developed such a brain that is only partially used?

[John Cuthber]

I know this is off topic but I think it's the responsible thing to do.

Is there anyone reading this who does not think that Dovada needs professional help?

Religion is all well and good (just about) but telepathy?

Seriously: the guy needs help.

[Tres Juicy]

I know this is off topic but I think it's the responsible thing to do.

Is there anyone reading this who does not think that Dovada needs professional help?

Religion is all well and good (just about) but telepathy?

Seriously: the guy needs help.

 

If he believes what he is saying then he is potentially a very disturbed individual and certainly not someone I would be happy to live within walking distance of.

 

There are plenty of people who believe in telepathy and psychics and all sorts of nonsense but they are mostly harmless fantasists, but People like Dovada are able to justify any action, however terrible, by attributing it to "gods will".

 

I would certainly recomend some form of help for the guy

[Moontanman]

I was trying to decide if it was appropriate to mention this as well, we might be lighting a fuse to something very bad by just talking to this guy. Most of the religious we talk to here are either completely and obviously crazy or relatively reasonable people we can at least agree to disagree with but this guy sounds reasonable but is totally delusional. He really worries me.... I bet he has followers, i wonder if he has a you tube channel...

[iNow]

I'm not sure I can agree with you guys. He's really no different than anyone else who honestly believes in their abrahamic religion, is he?

[Moontanman]

I'm not sure I can agree with you guys. He's really no different than anyone else who honestly believes in their abrahamic religion, is he?

 

 

He seems to be a bit more cognizant of what is going on than most to me. Most of the ones who come on here who are that much of a true believer sound a lot more unreasonable than he does from a religious view point, almost anyone would identify them as less than sane before they started with the deep religious belief, he talks a pretty good line and doesn't deviate into insane rants, he sticks with his book pretty close and makes it sound almost reasonable. It made me pause a couple days ago, he seems a lot more aware of things to me, almost as though he knows he is wrong but is desperate to make others believe with him, hard to really put my finger on it. I hope you are correct...

Edited February 5, 2012 by Moontanman

[Tres Juicy]

He seems to be a bit more cognizant of what is going on than most to me. Most of the ones who come on here who are that much of a true believer sound a lot more unreasonable than he does from a religious view point, almost anyone would identify them as less than sane before they started with the deep religious belief, he talks a pretty good line and doesn't deviate into insane rants, he sticks with his book pretty close and makes it sound almost reasonable. It made me pause a couple days ago, he seems a lot more aware of things to me, almost as though he knows he is wrong but is desperate to make others believe with him, hard to really put my finger on it. I hope you are correct...

 

I keep thinking "cultist"...

[Moontanman]

I keep thinking "cultist"...

 

 

yeah, that is the word I was looking for...

[Dovada]

This sounds like a very common myth that has repeatedly been demonstrated as false. According to what evidence are you making this assertion? You're welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

For many it is common knowledge about "The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control" see http://www.netplaces.com/psychic/what-is-psychic-ability/levels-of-consciousness.htm as an example.

 

So whats the point of them?

 

Where do you find it?

 

It sounds to me that you're just making stuff up

 

You're basically saying that everyone else is wrong and you are the only person who knows the truth about god

 

Do you realise how crazy that makes you sound?

The church misrepresents the word of God and was the reason Christ was crucified as In have already told you. The church also does not accept me for the same reason.

 

Ask yourself what was Peter's mistake here when he spoke to Jesus:

Mathew chapter 16 verses 22-23:

22. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!''

23. But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.''

 

Peter's mistake was simply he loved the man Jesus and not God:

Mathew chapter 22 verses 36-38:

36. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?''

37. Jesus said to him, " `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

38. "This is the first and great commandment.

 

The word ALL means there is no room to love anything else. You seek and find what you love. When you find the knowledge of God you find he is the life of your brother, sister and neighbor. (Who can love God and at the same time hate his neighbor).

 

Then the next commandment applies:

Mathew chapter 22 verses 39:

39. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

 

Unfortunately the church often misrepresents the words of Jesus Christ in that they only teach to love thy neighbor ignoring the greatest commandment to love God.

 

John chapter 13 verse 34: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

 

So how did Jesus love us. He gave his life for us so that we would know the living God.

 

As I said before, the church also does not like me.

John chapter 15 verses 18-19:

18. "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

19. "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

 

If he believes what he is saying then he is potentially a very disturbed individual and certainly not someone I would be happy to live within walking distance of.

 

There are plenty of people who believe in telepathy and psychics and all sorts of nonsense but they are mostly harmless fantasists, but People like Dovada are able to justify any action, however terrible, by attributing it to "gods will".

1John chapter 4 verse 6-9:

6. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

7. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

8. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

True Godly people do not war or hate, Does not Satan stir up the people into aggression justifying any action. Tres Juicy watch out for the Devil for I have not ever spoken of violence. You are the one implying this evil.

 

1John chapter 3 verse 10: In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

 

Remember: As I said before "You find God is the life of your brother, sister and neighbor. (Who can love God and at the same time hate his brother).

 

1Peter chapter 2 verse 15: For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men

 

You seem concerned about metal telepathy and similar activity, yet you happily use your cellphones for communication and your television transmissions for entertainment. But you cannot perceive the brain has this same capacity and more which you have not yet been trained to use.

 

Do you not realize that the brain has the capacity to communicate with God (the cosmos), this is the basic principle behind praying. Because the brain is flesh can it not communicate? The cosmos and its motions (God) controls every atom within the universe. The atoms do not control God but interact with the cosmos (God) using his laws.

 

These are the laws which God wishes to share with you (his children) such that this is the gift of your inheritance that you receive the knowledge of God. But who is listening? Who understands these things? Only he who has received? Who is this? The sons of God.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dovada

[iNow]

For many it is common knowledge about "The mind is only about 10% under your conscious control" see <link removed> as an example.

Your link does not support your claim. It merely repeats it. Would you like to try again?

[Essay]

The word ALL means there is no room to love anything else. You seek and find what you love. When you find the knowledge of God you find he is the life of your brother, sister and neighbor. (Who can love God and at the same time hate his neighbor).

 

Then the next commandment applies:

Mathew chapter 22 verses 39:

39. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

 

Unfortunately the church often misrepresents the words of Jesus Christ in that they only teach to love thy neighbor ignoring the greatest commandment to love God.

 

John chapter 13 verse 34: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

 

So how did Jesus love us. He gave his life for us so that we would know the living God.

 

As I said before, the church also does not like me.

John chapter 15 verses 18-19:

18. "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

19. "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

 

 

1John chapter 4 verse 6-9:

6. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

7. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

8. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

True Godly people do not war or hate, Does not Satan stir up the people into aggression justifying any action. Tres Juicy watch out for the Devil for I have not ever spoken of violence. You are the one implying this evil.

 

1John chapter 3 verse 10: In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

 

Remember: As I said before "You find God is the life of your brother, sister and neighbor. (Who can love God and at the same time hate his brother).

 

1Peter chapter 2 verse 15: For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men

 

You seem concerned about metal telepathy and similar activity, yet you happily use your cellphones for communication and your television transmissions for entertainment. But you cannot perceive the brain has this same capacity and more which you have not yet been trained to use.

 

Do you not realize that the brain has the capacity to communicate with God (the cosmos), this is the basic principle behind praying. Because the brain is flesh can it not communicate? The cosmos and its motions (God) controls every atom within the universe. The atoms do not control God but interact with the cosmos (God) using his laws.

 

These are the laws which God wishes to share with you (his children) such that this is the gift of your inheritance that you receive the knowledge of God. But who is listening? Who understands these things? Only he who has received? Who is this? The sons of God.

"For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men."

...sort of like teaching through demonstration, or setting a good example?

 

 

In general...

 

These words above seem to be a good description of what science sees as the combined effects of wisdom (from knowledge and learning) and oxytocin (the humanity hormone), working in concert to promote and ensure our mammalian sense of security, which evolution has developed quite highly in our species through--as you say--the laws governing the motions of the cosmos.

 

 

Back before science and books, wasn't religion the only way to transmit culture, respect, honor, and hope?

 

Oxytocin "Oxytocin increases trust in humans"

<Michael Kosfeld, Markus Heinrichs, Paul J. Zak, Urs Fischbacher, Ernst Fehr>

http://dept.wofford....8/oxy-human.pdf

 

Trust pervades human societies. Trust is indispensable in friendship, love, families and organizations, and plays a key role in economic exchange and politics. In the absence of trust among trading partners, market transactions break down. In the absence of trust in a country's institutions and leaders, political legitimacy breaks down. Much recent evidence indicates that trust contributes to economic, political and social success. Little is known, however, about the biological basis of trust among humans.

 

These results concur with animal research suggesting an essential role for oxytocin as a biological basis of prosocial approach behaviour.

 

If you search and have a chance to see Paul Zak talk about his research, and the 1% of people who seem to be immune to oxytocin's effects ("the bastards"), it is worth the time to spend on a video link.

 

~

[Dovada]

Your link does not support your claim. It merely repeats it. Would you like to try again?

You have as much chance as I have in finding accurate information on this fact. I first read this information over 30 years ago in a book somewhere and since then not much has changed.

 

The point in question is that the human brain and mind has abilities far beyond our understanding at this time. For this fact I am extremely grateful and because of this I have hope for the future of mankind.

 

Back before science and books, wasn't religion the only way to transmit culture, respect, honor, and hope?

The difficulty involved in any form of education especially one as complex and complete as this ending up involving transparent power and energy is colossal. The need for basic social behavior education all the way to advanced cosmic power and energy that drives the universe. Such an immense task only a God could face and attempt.

 

The biggest problem is man is much smarter than any God (so he thinks).

 

Psalms 23

 

1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters.

3. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake.

4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

5. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over.

6. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever.

 

You come from the power of God and when you leave here you return to where you came from, God.

Most importantly you came for a reason.

 

For Jesus it was to reveal the living God to us, the Spirit of Life itself:

 

Mathew chapter 22 verses 41-44:

41. And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed,

42. saying, "Father, if it is Your will, remove this cup from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.''

43. Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him.

44. And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. And His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 

John chapter 17 verses 1-4

1. Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

2. "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

3. "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4. "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dovada

[Tres Juicy]

The church misrepresents the word of God and was the reason Christ was crucified as In have already told you. The church also does not accept me for the same reason.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_complex

 

 

True Godly people do not war or hate, Does not Satan stir up the people into aggression justifying any action. Tres Juicy watch out for the Devil for I have not ever spoken of violence. You are the one implying this evil.

 

I am merely pointing out that people with extreme veiws can be capable of terrible things.

 

I am not aware of any atheist terrorists or cult leaders

[Dovada]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_complex

 

I am merely pointing out that people with extreme veiws can be capable of terrible things.

 

I am not aware of any atheist terrorists or cult leaders

All are tempted by the Devil.

 

Mathew chapter 4 verse 1: Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

 

But to overcome you need to understand:

Mathew chapter 4 verse 10: Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' ''

 

Nevertheless you were stirring up the others: Refrain from such behavior:

 

I am not aware of any sons of God who are atheist terrorists or cult leaders. One of us speaks the truth.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dovada

[Tres Juicy]

Nevertheless you were stirring up the others: Refrain from such behavior:

 

I am certainly not intending to "stir anyone up", I simply expressed my concerns

[Dovada]

I am certainly not intending to "stir anyone up", I simply expressed my concerns

This is not a good way to do it.

 

Try to understand the magnitude of the message I have supplied, you will unlikely hear it from another.

 

The difficulty involved in any form of education especially one as complex and complete as this ending up involving transparent power and energy is colossal. The need for basic social behavior education all the way to advanced cosmic power and energy that drives the universe. Such an immense task only a God could face and attempt.

 

I have repeated this quotation to help in your understanding of the purpose of God in his quest to educate all of us.

 

As I said before we need to have the intelligence to reason with him.

 

Proverbs chapter 2

 

1. My son, if you receive my words, and treasure my commands within you,

2. so that you incline your ear to wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding;

3. yes, if you cry out for discernment, and lift up your voice for understanding,

4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;

5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

6. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding;

7. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;

8. He guards the paths of justice, and preserves the way of His saints.

9. Then you will understand righteousness and justice, equity and every good path.

10. When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul,

11. discretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,

[Tres Juicy]

This is not a good way to do it.

 

Try to understand the magnitude of the message I have supplied, you will unlikely hear it from another.

 

 

 

I have repeated this quotation to help in your understanding of the purpose of God in his quest to educate all of us.

 

As I said before we need to have the intelligence to reason with him.

 

Proverbs chapter 2

 

1. My son, if you receive my words, and treasure my commands within you,

2. so that you incline your ear to wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding;

3. yes, if you cry out for discernment, and lift up your voice for understanding,

4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;

5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

6. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding;

7. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;

8. He guards the paths of justice, and preserves the way of His saints.

9. Then you will understand righteousness and justice, equity and every good path.

10. When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul,

11. discretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,

 

What are you trying to say?

 

What message?

 

You've already said that the church is wrong, why do have so much faith in a bronze age book written by goat herders?

 

Maybe that's wrong too?

 

It's been translated and re-written thousands of times (by the church usually). Who's to say they got it right? Who's to say thay didn't modify bits here and there to suit their agenda at the time?

[Dovada]

You've already said that the church is wrong, why do have so much faith in a bronze age book written by goat herders?

 

Maybe that's wrong too?

 

It's been translated and re-written thousands of times (by the church usually). Who's to say they got it right? Who's to say thay didn't modify bits here and there to suit their agenda at the time?

The bible version I only use is the New King James Version. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_King_James_Version Its numerical numbering system uses seventy instead of the usual three score and ten. This is much easier to understand in the scientific arena.

 

The church does not understand the depth of wisdom and knowledge contained within the scripture. Many Catholic sermons are still spoken in a Latin language that people do not understand. Why? Because it is a form of showing off and serves no purpose, only masking out the word of God.

 

What are you trying to say?

 

What message?

I assume here you need me to spell it out. Simply God powers the cosmos, in fact God is the cosmos, and ultimately wishes to tell you (his Sons) how he does this, how the cosmos works. How he also is your life force (Spirit). This Spirit is in the same image as God.

 

2Corinthians chapter 4 verse 4: whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

 

May I suggest you ask the Father yourself, because you will have many questions and need many answers. Vision often come when you sleep and not distracted by the world. There is a skill of vision interpretation that you will need to develop.