Animal rights

[Dean Mullen]

Every hour about 1,000,000 animals are slaughtered for human consumption in the United States alone. We call ourselves a civilization but we kill animals in their masses all the time! Most people see animals as just another resource, just something else to satisfy humanity’s greed’s. In my opinion it is completely wrong to kill animals. It is genocide!

 

Think about it, 16,000 animals are slaughtered every minute. For most of humans its normal. But then again it was normal to kill and torture African and American slaves in the 15^th century, it was normal to burn anyone to the stake whom spoke against the church in the 16^th century, it was normal for humans to be slaughtered and eaten by bigger more beastly animals before the rise of civilization. We were once just another species. We were nothing special. We had a likelihood of survival the same as any creature. But now we are civilized, yet that statement maybe false based on the fact there is 16,000 animals slaughtered every minute in just one of over 200 nations of the world. Yet with our so-called civilization, we can survive and being hunted by other animals isn’t much of a general threat.

 

We are the master species. We are the civilized species supposedly. But after billions of years of chaos in the world, a continuation of birth and young death, but soon rose humans, we could improve our lives. We could even change the world! And we have. We have changed the world completely, we have killed more and more animals, polluted the air, destroyed the Earth’s forests, and overall brought more bad than good to the world. Yes we have changed the world and we have done it by making us happy but wrecking our home and our brother and sister species.

 

It’s easy to fall for the concept that murder of animals and eating is okay because everyone does it. One has no fear of vegans because they are such a minority and one has so many others surrounding those telling those convincing lies. Lies that are only convincing because they are in the hands of the majority. But a majority isn’t necessarily the right side. One feels that killing is wrong, but at the end of the day, its okay and change isn’t real, it’s a fairytale. It’s because of that attitude towards animal rights that it is such a problem. When humans look themselves in the mirror and smile, although I do not want to sound too pessimistic, humans should know that, that smile is grown because of the misery and death of animals. An average person eats meat for their dinner, an average person use electricity that is powered by greenhouse gases that destroy the atmosphere and increase the death of animals across the globe, especially in the Polar Regions as the ice caps melt and polar bears die as they drown in the ocean. They are suffocated with water. They choke, panic and feel excruciating pain, their children die and with all of that, dies hope.

 

But all it requires is for one to use less electricity and stop eating meat. I feel ashamed to use electricity but if I don’t, I can’t spread the word of animal rights. All it takes is for one to stop eating meat. And if we can all stop eating meat, fish then millions of lives are saved an hour. Don’t forget animals are conscious, loving & hating, thinking & remembering and important individuals. Animals are real, they have feelings, they do think and most importantly just like every human, they do live. And the meaning of life is to live it. What gives us the right to take it away? Would you eat a human if she/he was slaughtered? We don’t need to eat meat and fish to survive. We have so much technology and intelligence we could clearly find substitutes in fruit & vegetables.

 

 

[mississippichem]

I love animals. I have three dogs and an iguana all of whose company I enjoy on a daily basis. However, I also love steak, pork, fish and the like. If all humans were to stop eating meat today; other carnivorous animals would continue to consume herbivores. I don't see a moral dilemma here at all, as long as we take care to minimize the animals' suffering as we kill them. Really though, other carnivores don't even do that much [ever seen a house cat torture a mouse?]. It's just the nature of living things. I can eat a cow, but a tiger can eat me!

 

I also enjoy hunting and fishing, but my policy is that I only kill what I will eat. I believe that killing animals for reasons other than self defense, food, or sound science is unethical.

Edited March 4, 2011 by mississippichem

[Dean Mullen]

I love animals. I have three dogs and an iguana all of whose company I enjoy on a daily basis. However, I also love steak, pork, fish and the like. If all humans were to stop eating meat today; other carnivorous animals would continue to consume herbivores. I don't see a moral dilemma here at all, as long as we take care to minimize the animals' suffering as we kill them. Really though, other carnivores don't even do that much [ever seen a house cat torture a mouse?]. It's just the nature of living things. I can eat a cow, but a tiger can eat me!

 

I also enjoy hunting and fishing, but my policy is that I only kill what I will eat. I believe that killing animals for reasons other than self defense, food, or sound science is unethical.

 

Yes its in our nature, but we are smart, we are civilized (supposedly) and we should be intelligent enough to stop eating and killing animals. And my point is we should try overtime get every animal to become vegans, although it would be tough, we can bring peace and harmony to the world, we have the power to change the world. And it doesn't matter if killing animals is natural, it is wrong. Death is wrong, no animals deserve to die and we can live without eating animals, we can survive, we wont die without eating animals, we can protect animals, we should rather than eat them. The only reason humans take care of most animals is so they can keep them healthy before becoming dinner. I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says, I just cannot agree with murder.

[Phi for All]

Every hour about 1,000,000 animals are slaughtered for human consumption in the United States alone. We call ourselves a civilization but we kill animals in their masses all the time! Most people see animals as just another resource, just something else to satisfy humanity’s greed’s. In my opinion it is completely wrong to kill animals. It is genocide!

 

Civilized societies have great numbers to feed. "Civilized" doesn't mean "compassionate towards animals", it just means we've organized ourselves in a way that lets us live in larger groups, and one of those ways is to raise large amounts of livestock. And "genocide" implies we're trying to destroy them all completely. I guarantee you no one is aiming to destroy all the cows and chickens and fish.

 

Think about it, 16,000 animals are slaughtered every minute. For most of humans its normal. But then again it was normal to kill and torture African and American slaves in the 15^th century, it was normal to burn anyone to the stake whom spoke against the church in the 16^th century, it was normal for humans to be slaughtered and eaten by bigger more beastly animals before the rise of civilization. We were once just another species. We were nothing special. We had a likelihood of survival the same as any creature. But now we are civilized, yet that statement maybe false based on the fact there is 16,000 animals slaughtered every minute in just one of over 200 nations of the world. Yet with our so-called civilization, we can survive and being hunted by other animals isn’t much of a general threat.

 

What makes us different now is intelligence. Maybe it's intelligent to create a system that feeds over 6.5B people.

 

We are the master species. We are the civilized species supposedly. But after billions of years of chaos in the world, a continuation of birth and young death, but soon rose humans, we could improve our lives. We could even change the world! And we have. We have changed the world completely, we have killed more and more animals, polluted the air, destroyed the Earth’s forests, and overall brought more bad than good to the world. Yes we have changed the world and we have done it by making us happy but wrecking our home and our brother and sister species.

 

We have no endangered livestock species that I'm aware of. Where we control the farming, we do pretty well.

 

It’s easy to fall for the concept that murder of animals and eating is okay because everyone does it. One has no fear of vegans because they are such a minority and one has so many others surrounding those telling those convincing lies. Lies that are only convincing because they are in the hands of the majority. But a majority isn’t necessarily the right side. One feels that killing is wrong, but at the end of the day, its okay and change isn’t real, it’s a fairytale. It’s because of that attitude towards animal rights that it is such a problem. When humans look themselves in the mirror and smile, although I do not want to sound too pessimistic, humans should know that, that smile is grown because of the misery and death of animals. An average person eats meat for their dinner, an average person use electricity that is powered by greenhouse gases that destroy the atmosphere and increase the death of animals across the globe, especially in the Polar Regions as the ice caps melt and polar bears die as they drown in the ocean. They are suffocated with water. They choke, panic and feel excruciating pain, their children die and with all of that, dies hope.

 

Whoa, you're going after my electricity too? What if eating animals and using electricity is the only way to figure out how to make alternatives for both? Another guarantee: we won't be able to feed and power our current civilization if we suddenly stop eating meat and using electricity.

 

But all it requires is for one to use less electricity and stop eating meat. I feel ashamed to use electricity but if I don’t, I can’t spread the word of animal rights. All it takes is for one to stop eating meat. And if we can all stop eating meat, fish then millions of lives are saved an hour. Don’t forget animals are conscious, loving & hating, thinking & remembering and important individuals. Animals are real, they have feelings, they do think and most importantly just like every human, they do live. And the meaning of life is to live it. What gives us the right to take it away? Would you eat a human if she/he was slaughtered? We don’t need to eat meat and fish to survive. We have so much technology and intelligence we could clearly find substitutes in fruit & vegetables.

 

I'm all for being smart. I know lots of vegetarians who eat fish, but I have never met a vegan that didn't look downright sickly. As with most things, I stay away from the extreme ends and try to find some smart ground in the middle.

[Dean Mullen]

Civilized societies have great numbers to feed. "Civilized" doesn't mean "compassionate towards animals", it just means we've organized ourselves in a way that lets us live in larger groups, and one of those ways is to raise large amounts of livestock. And "genocide" implies we're trying to destroy them all completely. I guarantee you no one is aiming to destroy all the cows and chickens and fish.

 

 

 

What makes us different now is intelligence. Maybe it's intelligent to create a system that feeds over 6.5B people.

 

 

 

We have no endangered livestock species that I'm aware of. Where we control the farming, we do pretty well.

 

 

 

Whoa, you're going after my electricity too? What if eating animals and using electricity is the only way to figure out how to make alternatives for both? Another guarantee: we won't be able to feed and power our current civilization if we suddenly stop eating meat and using electricity.

 

 

 

I'm all for being smart. I know lots of vegetarians who eat fish, but I have never met a vegan that didn't look downright sickly. As with most things, I stay away from the extreme ends and try to find some smart ground in the middle.

 

First of all we don't need meat and fish to feed the worlds population you make it sound like the whole world is dying and we are all struggling to survive. Yes there is poverty in the world but I don't eat meat or fish and I am very healthy so we could feed the whole world on fruit & veg. In fact we could well survive eating that food and with technology we could find ways of perhaps growing artificial meat, if we can grow artificial hearts and livers in the laboratory why not grow artificial meat? And don't get me wrong I'm not talking about meat made of metal and wires, it is still biological but no animal needs to die. And I didn't say we should turn off all our electricity, I mean we should use renewable resources. Once we stop polluting the air with greenhouse gases then I have no problem with electricity. Don't get me wrong I don't propose to shut down our entire civilization, I just think we need to stop and think before we act.

[Phi for All]

Yes its in our nature, but we are smart, we are civilized (supposedly) and we should be intelligent enough to stop eating and killing animals. And my point is we should try overtime get every animal to become vegans, although it would be tough, we can bring peace and harmony to the world, we have the power to change the world. And it doesn't matter if killing animals is natural, it is wrong. Death is wrong, no animals deserve to die and we can live without eating animals, we can survive, we wont die without eating animals, we can protect animals, we should rather than eat them. The only reason humans take care of most animals is so they can keep them healthy before becoming dinner. I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says, I just cannot agree with murder.

 

In my opinion, this is silly. You are now talking about removing the will of predatory animals and forcing them to eat fruits and vegetables?! I don't think farming livestock is murder, but getting "every animal to become vegans" is nothing short of evil. If you love animals, how could you force them to adopt such unnatural ways?

 

Of course, if you used electricity for shock therapy, you might be able to convince a lion he should eat some lettuce....

 

I am very healthy so we could feed the whole world on fruit & veg.

 

This is a Hasty Generalization fallacy. Just because it works for you doesn't mean everyone in the world would flourish on such a diet.

 

Do insects have feelings? What makes something alive? Does it have to have a heart?

 

There are many reasons why we raise animals for food. As long as we don't cause them to suffer unnecessarily, I think it's fine to allow them a shot at a life you would deny them with your system. You do realize that there wouldn't be nearly as many animals born if we adopted your way of thinking, don't you?

[Dean Mullen]

In my opinion, this is silly. You are now talking about removing the will of predatory animals and forcing them to eat fruits and vegetables?! I don't think farming livestock is murder, but getting "every animal to become vegans" is nothing short of evil. If you love animals, how could you force them to adopt such unnatural ways?

 

Of course, if you used electricity for shock therapy, you might be able to convince a lion he should eat some lettuce....

 

How can you call saving lives evil? You say its natural for animals to eat one another, yes that is true but its only natural because the only natural way species can develop in the start is via this method, it is only natural because it has to be because life exists and that's the only way how. But just because its natural doesn't make it right. It was once natural for African-americans to be slaves but that's not right. You can't say something is right because its natural because if that's the way it was then in any situation you would agree to anything that nature presents and god knows what nature could have resulted in, it could have been natural for anything to have happened and so you say simply because its natural it is right.

 

What is evil about stopping animals being murderers? what is evil about stopping a lion murdering and eating another animal completely. I am talking not about what is natural, not what about humans think is right but what is truly right. Let's be honest it's not like god came down and said let animals kill one another and yes nature is beautiful but it's not perfect, and we shouldn't be afraid to change it for the better. We've already changed the world for the worse by destroying the forests and polluting the air so why not lets stop and actually do something for the better. We humans can change the world for the better!

[Horza2002]

I love animals as well...but you are forgetting that we are animals as well. We need to eat and meat has been a part of the human diet for a VERY long time. If we werent supposed to eat meat, we wouldn't have the enzymes required to digest meat or the teeth nessary to chew it properly. It is part of nature, everything that live needs to eat...we are no different to a lion in that we eat meat. If anythign we are kinder to the animals than a lion is...a lion will chase/stalk its prey until it exhausted (all the time the prey knowing what is going on) before it moves in for the kill...and its rarely a quick death..more a lingering death. Animals that are slaughtered for human consumption are often done in the most humane ways possible resulting in a quick death. And during thyre lives, they have all their needs cared for...they have no need to worry about predators, food, water, shelter, mates, etc.

 

While I don't hunt myself, I have no problem people hunting and killing animals PROVIDED they are going to eat them. I don't agree with people going out and killing animals for the fun of it.

[Dean Mullen]

I love animals as well...but you are forgetting that we are animals as well. We need to eat and meat has been a part of the human diet for a VERY long time. If we werent supposed to eat meat, we wouldn't have the enzymes required to digest meat or the teeth nessary to chew it properly. It is part of nature, everything that live needs to eat...we are no different to a lion in that we eat meat. If anythign we are kinder to the animals than a lion is...a lion will chase/stalk its prey until it exhausted (all the time the prey knowing what is going on) before it moves in for the kill...and its rarely a quick death..more a lingering death. Animals that are slaughtered for human consumption are often done in the most humane ways possible resulting in a quick death. And during thyre lives, they have all their needs cared for...they have no need to worry about predators, food, water, shelter, mates, etc.

 

While I don't hunt myself, I have no problem people hunting and killing animals PROVIDED they are going to eat them. I don't agree with people going out and killing animals for the fun of it.

 

We did need meat before we evolved into a civilization, now we can live without meat.

[Horza2002]

How does becoming a civilisation mean our diaterary requirements change? We are still animals at the end of it all

[Phi for All]

How can you call saving lives evil? You say its natural for animals to eat one another, yes that is true but its only natural because the only natural way species can develop in the start is via this method, it is only natural because it has to be because life exists and that's the only way how. But just because its natural doesn't make it right. It was once natural for African-americans to be slaves but that's not right. You can't say something is right because its natural because if that's the way it was then in any situation you would agree to anything that nature presents and god knows what nature could have resulted in, it could have been natural for anything to have happened and so you say simply because its natural it is right.

 

Don't confuse behavior with physiology. Carnivores don't have the right teeth for eating fruits and vegetables, for one. I don't think you're thinking this through completely.

 

What is evil about stopping animals being murderers? what is evil about stopping a lion murdering and eating another animal completely. I am talking not about what is natural, not what about humans think is right but what is truly right. Let's be honest it's not like god came down and said let animals kill one another and yes nature is beautiful but it's not perfect, and we shouldn't be afraid to change it for the better. We've already changed the world for the worse by destroying the forests and polluting the air so why not lets stop and actually do something for the better. We humans can change the world for the better!

 

Truly right?! You somehow know what is truly right about life, the universe and everything?!? I think you are applying a simple concept, that all life must be protected from what you would call unnatural death, and you're applying it to a very, very, very complex system that has evolved over billions of years. I don't know why you think your ideas would make the world better. It's scary to me that you think eating animals bred for that purpose is evil, while stating that mind-control to force entire species to change their evolutionary paths is perfectly OK. I think the Crazy snuck up and got you.

[Dean Mullen]

Don't confuse behavior with physiology. Carnivores don't have the right teeth for eating fruits and vegetables, for one. I don't think you're thinking this through completely.

 

 

 

Truly right?! You somehow know what is truly right about life, the universe and everything?!? I think you are applying a simple concept, that all life must be protected from what you would call unnatural death, and you're applying it to a very, very, very complex system that has evolved over billions of years. I don't know why you think your ideas would make the world better. It's scary to me that you think eating animals bred for that purpose is evil, while stating that mind-control to force entire species to change their evolutionary paths is perfectly OK. I think the Crazy snuck up and got you.

 

What are you talking about? I am talking about a world were there is no pain, no suffering, why not have a world were everyone is happy? if you don't want a world were everyone is happy then you prefer sadness and anger?

 

How does becoming a civilisation mean our diaterary requirements change? We are still animals at the end of it all

 

It doesn't matter, because its right for life to live, why not? I am proposing a world were there is no death, no suffering, just infinite joy, why not?

[Horza2002]

No death??........are you serious? People will still get old, ill, accidents and murder...people will still die. There is nothing you can do to prevent death from occuring. And pain and suffering are a natural part of life...to quote a line from Suviver, Rise Against:

 

"Life for you been less than kind

So take a number stand in line

We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt

But how we survive

It's what makes us who we are"

 

I agree with you, life without pain and suffering would be wonderful....its just not practically possible

Edited March 4, 2011 by Horza2002

[Dean Mullen]

No death??........are you serious? People will still get old, ill, accidents and murder...people will still die. There is nothing you can do to prevent death from occuring. And pain and suffering are a natural part of life...to quote a line from Suviver, Rise Against:

 

"Life for you been less than kind

So take a number stand in line

We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt

But how we survive

It's what makes us who we are"

 

Your forgetting that things change and in the future death may dissapear. Genetic engineering? with this we can live for millenniums maybe millions of years or more. Of course we can't live forever, by no death I mean it'll be so rare. Death will come but the amount of time it could happen between now and forever is a lot so don't expect people to die too early. In fact with genetic engineering and the moving forward of civilization then we can have barely any accidents. In fact if scientists are correct then its feasible you'll be alive in the year 3000.

[Phi for All]

What are you talking about? I am talking about a world were there is no pain, no suffering, why not have a world were everyone is happy? if you don't want a world were everyone is happy then you prefer sadness and anger?

 

If nothing dies and every species population grows unchecked, eventually there will be no room for the extra farming you'll need for fruits and vegetables. Speaking of which, since your veg doesn't grow in every climate, doesn't that mean that the added populations will have to be moved where it's cold and harsh so we can make the most of the temperate growing climates? Where's your happy people now? They're pushing the polar bears off the ice, that's where. And they can now because you've mind-zapped the polar bears into a non-aggressive state.

 

Again, I think you're trying to push fantasy onto reality, and you want us to believe it'll all be happy happy. Do the math, think ahead. What you're suggesting may sound good but you're dreaming with no basis in reality. It won't work without outrageous amounts of change, something that usually doesn't work out well for those living presently.

 

Talk to us about how you would accomplish something like this. That would be more interesting.

[Horza2002]

Genetic engineering will not allow us to live for ever. At the best, it will allow us to live for a long time...but you are still forgetting accidents....people will still die froma accidents (whether it being human error or technological faliure).

 

What scientists say we'll be alive in 3000? Can you send the links please, I'd be very interested in reading that please.

[Dean Mullen]

Genetic engineering will not allow us to live for ever. At the best, it will allow us to live for a long time...but you are still forgetting accidents....people will still die froma accidents (whether it being human error or technological faliure).

 

What scientists say we'll be alive in 3000? Can you send the links please, I'd be very interested in reading that please.

 

I know it won't allow us to live forever but anyways here is the video

[Horza2002]

I've just watched that viedo...and what they talk about is, I would say rather speculative. There is no evidence that it would work for humans...mammals are a much more complicated organisms than the worms they had got it to work with so far. Even if it is possible for humans, it is still decades away.

[Dean Mullen]

I've just watched that viedo...and what they talk about is, I would say rather speculative. There is no evidence that it would work for humans...mammals are a much more complicated organisms than the worms they had got it to work with so far. Even if it is possible for humans, it is still decades away.

 

Yes I know but its possible but anyways lets forget it cause were going off the point.

[Moontanman]

Yes I know but its possible but anyways lets forget it cause were going off the point.

 

 

Yes but what about plant rights, why is it ok to kill and eat plants, use their corpses as building materials, confine them to pots, burn them just for heat! Who are you to say killing plants is ok?

[lemur]

How does becoming a civilisation mean our diaterary requirements change? We are still animals at the end of it all

I think he means that agricultural science and technology (has) developed the ability to provide sufficient sources of protein, calories, and other nutrients that it is possible to eliminate meat-consumption without suffering any kind of malnutrition.

 

I would add that it is also supposedly more ethical (civilized) to substitute non-meats for meat because of environmental reasons, though I am not so sure that every field/forest used for grazing livestock could be more efficiently used to grow plant-based foods. It would be interesting, though, to do some case-by-case comparisons of how much nutrition could be harvested from a given livestock field by growing crops. I once read the ratio 7:1 for the amount of land area per unit food-consumption produced for vegetables vs. meats. Also, meat raising, slaughter, and processing uses MUCH more water than crops, presumably just because of all the hygiene measures and cleanup involved.

 

 

[Mr Skeptic]

According to my ecology teacher, one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do is go shoot yourself some deer and eat them. We currently have an excessive deer population, and as a source of meat they are far superior than cutting down forests for pasture or feeding crops to livestock. Also ecologically friendly, are livestock that are not fed crops (so long as we're not cutting down forest for pasture), or fed organic scraps (such as pigs fed restaurant waste or livestock fed the inedible parts of food crops). However, when we grow crops only to then feed them to animals, which we do plenty of, that is where a lot of the waste happens.

 

As for preventing animals from killing other animals, first we need to find an alternate way to keep their populations in check and to kill off their weak. You wouldn't want the animals getting all sickly like what happened to the deer population when wolves were eliminated now would you?

[Dean Mullen]

According to my ecology teacher, one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do is go shoot yourself some deer and eat them. We currently have an excessive deer population, and as a source of meat they are far superior than cutting down forests for pasture or feeding crops to livestock. Also ecologically friendly, are livestock that are not fed crops (so long as we're not cutting down forest for pasture), or fed organic scraps (such as pigs fed restaurant waste or livestock fed the inedible parts of food crops). However, when we grow crops only to then feed them to animals, which we do plenty of, that is where a lot of the waste happens.

 

As for preventing animals from killing other animals, first we need to find an alternate way to keep their populations in check and to kill off their weak. You wouldn't want the animals getting all sickly like what happened to the deer population when wolves were eliminated now would you?

 

Yeah I understand what you mean but that's why I suggested artificial meat. If we humans can built artificial organs why not artificial parts of animals? its the great resolution.

[Horza2002]

Artificial meat would not solve the problem of excessively large populations of game animals. And while synthetic meat could indeed be possible, getting the flavour right would be extremely difficult...I'm not sure people would accept the change.

[Dean Mullen]

Artificial meat would not solve the problem of excessively large populations of game animals. And while synthetic meat could indeed be possible, getting the flavour right would be extremely difficult...I'm not sure people would accept the change.

 

well at first it'll be difficult but lets say its the year 2300 and they've mastered all the problems surrounding it and it tastes the same and gives the same energy, if people couldn't accept it then that would be unfair don't you think? why wouldn't they accept it?