The sun is giving birth to planets

[Phi for All]

Apparently the pyramids were impossible to build. Apparently Mayans understanding of the solar system almost seems impossible without some sort of outside source. Why else would thy have built the pyramids?

NOT impossible. We think of early civilizations with crude tools and we find it hard to imagine that they could have accomplished some of the engineering feats we would find difficult today. But most people fail to take into account the huge amounts of manpower they were able to bring to bear on these tasks. When you have 30,000 people working on a pyramid, you can knock it out in a couple of decades. By comparison, the cathedral of Notre Dame took a couple of centuries.

 

Why were the pyramids built? There are many ideas with varying degrees of plausibility, but I don't think they were big enough on the inside to protect a lot of people from a solar event. There are better designs for larger numbers than the way it was built.

[Ophiolite]

It IS crucial to be able to change one's mind.

 

Mine changes all the time.

 

As evidenced by this thread..

There has been abundant material in this thread that should have caused you to change your mind. Had you failed to do so it would have cast in you in a sorry light.

 

It IS crucial to be able to change one's mind.

 

Yours does not.

 

As evidenced by this thread.

Nothing you or anyone else has said in this thread should have led to even a smidgeon of a change in spyman's position.

 

Readiness to change one's mind has to be contingent on there being evidential or logical reasons for doing so.

[Klaynos]

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Moderator Note

Please endeavour to stay on topic!

[jamiestem]

I guess I can get with the theory that meteors and asteroids collided and collided and orbited each other until they collided and built up enough mass to form planets and this process is ongoing today. That all the craters on other planets kind of proves it in a way. I see that......but what about Earth? I mean why do we have a shield now and noone else does? Water? like a droplet? Do the same gases exist on the edge of a water droplet that exist on the edge of our atmosphere?

 

and my apologies for questioning things with no real backing other than my weird thoughts, but Im new here. I still think the Earth is spinning apart and there are oceans beneath Venus. I still like my planet timeline theory. I mean its easy, basically when Earth rotates out to where Jupiter is it will be a gas giant too. And when Jupiter gets to Uranus, it's gases will freeze a bit and it will shrink. Thanks everyone.

[swansont]

I guess I can get with the theory that meteors and asteroids collided and collided and orbited each other until they collided and built up enough mass to form planets and this process is ongoing today. That all the craters on other planets kind of proves it in a way. I see that......but what about Earth? I mean why do we have a shield now and noone else does? Water? like a droplet? Do the same gases exist on the edge of a water droplet that exist on the edge of our atmosphere?

 

What do you mean by what about earth? What shield? Are you claiming that no projectiles hit the earth, or that no other planet has an atmosphere? Neither claim is true.

[losfomot]

I still like my planet timeline theory. I mean its easy, basically when Earth rotates out to where Jupiter is it will be a gas giant too. And when Jupiter gets to Uranus, it's gases will freeze a bit and it will shrink. Thanks everyone.

 

Earth will never be a gas giant. It is not just the size that distinguishes these two planets... it is mass (and composition) that is the important difference.

[michel123456]

Lets speculate wildly.

 

The sun consumes its material but like any other thing in the Universe, it is imperfect. A small amount of material is not well "burned" and remains inside the sun. It slowly agglomerates into an inform packet that rotates with the sun, inside the sun. Because it has another density of the surrounding plasma, this small mass of impurities rotates at another velocity and thus follows an internal orbit. Slowly, as the mass increases, the orbit gets larger, becoming a spiral. The process continues until impurities reach the sun surface, eventually getting out of the sun, still upon the path of the spiral. When impurities get out of the sun, their mass do not augment any more. As the inform mass morphs slowly into a circular body, and because there is no added mass any more, the path changes from a spiral and becomes a regular orbit. The planet is born.

[insane_alien]

i doubt you'd get an internal orbit in the sun. the friction from the surrounding dense plasma would be too great

[John Cuthber]

Lets speculate wildly.

 

In the context of this thread, that's quite a challenge.

[losfomot]

Lets speculate wildly.

 

The sun consumes its material but like any other thing in the Universe, it is imperfect. A small amount of material is not well "burned" and remains inside the sun. It slowly agglomerates into an inform packet that rotates with the sun, inside the sun. Because it has another density of the surrounding plasma, this small mass of impurities rotates at another velocity and thus follows an internal orbit. Slowly, as the mass increases, the orbit gets larger, becoming a spiral. The process continues until impurities reach the sun surface, eventually getting out of the sun, still upon the path of the spiral. When impurities get out of the sun, their mass do not augment any more. As the inform mass morphs slowly into a circular body, and because there is no added mass any more, the path changes from a spiral and becomes a regular orbit. The planet is born.

 

Why would an increase in mass = a larger orbit?

[Edtharan]

Again. Once the intersecting object builds up enough mass from the plasma attaching to it and rolling, snowballing, it eventually builds up enough mass to orbit away from the sun rather than back into it...

 

...Again, I am just saying it's possible. Tell me why that isn't possible. No one has done that yet.

The reason is energy. You can't get energy from nothing.

 

Teh sun is a gravitational object, that is it has gravity. To move anything further away from a gravitating object requires energy The more massive the gravitating object is, or the mass of the object you want to move is, the more energy it takes.

 

To give you an idea of how much energy it does take, to life a rocket a few hundred kilometres up, requires a rocket to be around 90% to 95% fuel by mass, and this includes the loss of mass of the fuel as it is burnt too .

 

Now a planet is much, must more massive than a rocket, also the sun is much, much more massive than a planet. So to move a planet out would require the sun to loose so much of its mass that it would no longer be able to give birth to another planet (it would probably end up with less mass than the planet), let alone enough mass to keep it working (to compress the hydrogen gravitationally to cause fusion).

 

So, the reason your theory can't work is that it would require so much energy just to move a single planet out that you would be left without a sun to spawn any more planets to enough mass of the sun to keep it being a sun.

[jamiestem]

Thanks so much guys. I appreciate the explanation, if I understand correctly, that's the reason a supernova occurs? Too much energy leaving the sun would cause a massive event, a supernova basically, it couldn't just roll off into orbit without that.

 

What do you mean by what about earth? What shield? Are you claiming that no projectiles hit the earth, or that no other planet has an atmosphere? Neither claim is true.

 

 

Have less meteors/asteroids hit the earth than other planets? It certainly looks that way on a topographical map. Mercury, the moon, Mars, Venus, Neptune, Uranus, and most objects have many impact craters on them, Earth does not have as many it seems.

 

If so why?

Our atmosphere protects us from being battered by objects. How off base I am. I'm also suggesting that the reason we have a unique atmosphere is our oceans.

[losfomot]

Why would an increase in mass = a larger orbit?

 

[Edtharan]

Thanks so much guys. I appreciate the explanation, if I understand correctly, that's the reason a supernova occurs? Too much energy leaving the sun would cause a massive event, a supernova basically, it couldn't just roll off into orbit without that.

To understand why a supernova occurs, you first have to understand how a star works (even at the most basic levels). A Star is an object that is balanced between gravitational collapse and a fusion explosion.

 

As a cloud of gas collapses under its own gravity, it heat up. Even small amounts of gas do this. If you feel the valve of a tire that has been pumped up recently, it will be warmer (actually be careful here as it can be hot enough to burn you). This is because when you pump the tire up, you are compressing gas (air).

 

Now, with a star, the amount of compression is immense. The cloud can be several light years across (although very diffuse) and it gets compressed to a diameter ranging from less than 200,000km to a maximum of around 1,794,000,000km.

 

Because gravity compresses it, it heats up and the pressures rise. Eventually it gets hot enough and with enough pressure to force hydrogen atoms to fuse together into helium. This releases energy and makes the star hotter still.

 

The more compressed the star the greater the rate of fusion, and the heavier the element it can fuse (because the heavier the element the more energy it take to cause fusion, and the less energy released).

 

Hot gasses expand, and this extra heat from the fusion will eventually balance out the force of gravity. At this point the star is stable and will continue to fuse hydrogen into helium. However, because more and more heavy elements build up in the star, the less energy is put out to keep the star hot, as the star cools a bit, the force of gravity over comes the force of the pressure from the fusion reaction and the star begins again to compress. But, there is still a lot of hydrogen in the star and this new collapse triggers even more hydrogen to fuse along with some of the heavier elements.

 

In a small enough star, this just causes it to expand significantly and become a red giant. However, if the star is massive enough, this collapse occurs faster and with more force causing a rapid rise in the fusion rate. This massive burst of energy from fusion is enough to blast the star apart. This is called a supernova.

 

(ok, the above is not 100% accurate, but that is due to the fact that I am trying to make it simple, the actual process is much more complex than that, but the above is a pretty brief overview of how stars work and supernova occur).

 

Have less meteors/asteroids hit the earth than other planets? It certainly looks that way on a topographical map. Mercury, the moon, Mars, Venus, Neptune, Uranus, and most objects have many impact craters on them, Earth does not have as many it seems.

 

If so why?

Our atmosphere protects us from being battered by objects. How off base I am. I'm also suggesting that the reason we have a unique atmosphere is our oceans.

Actually, Earth has been hit about the same as the other inner planets. The reason we don't see many impact craters on Earth is because we have a thick atmosphere and an active water cycle. The atmosphere and water cycle tend to erode craters away.

 

We have some big ones too. The Chicxulub crater off the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico is around 180km in diameter and has lasted for around 65,000,000 years (yes this is the same date as when the dinosaurs went extinct). There are smaller ones like Meteor Crater in Texas and about 1.2km in diameter (and only about 50,000 years old). There are of course smaller ones as well, but they don't tend to last long.

 

The other thing is that the surface of the Earth is around 75% water, so that means 3 out of 4 meteors that hit the Earth hit the oceans, and if it is not too big (the Chicxulub asteroid was much too big) then there will not be any crater to mark its location (and even if it is big enough, we might never see the crater as it could be in the middle of an ocean).

 

If you have ever seen meteors in the sky at night, then you have seen small particles (not much bigger than rice grains actually) hitting our atmosphere. So we are being hit all the time. However the atmosphere it just too thick to let these smaller ones through (but still, some are beg enough to hit and you do hear of them occasionally).

 

So between the thick atmosphere that acts as a shield against small strikes and can weather down even the large craters, and the water which can absorb an impact, hide a crater and also weather down craters, this explains why we don't see many impact craters on Earth.

 

If we didn't have these, the Earth would look something a bit like the Moon with all its craters.

[swansont]

Have less meteors/asteroids hit the earth than other planets? It certainly looks that way on a topographical map. Mercury, the moon, Mars, Venus, Neptune, Uranus, and most objects have many impact craters on them, Earth does not have as many it seems.

 

If so why?

Our atmosphere protects us from being battered by objects. How off base I am. I'm also suggesting that the reason we have a unique atmosphere is our oceans.

 

We have a geologically active planet. How old is the surface, as compared to the moon? Turns out that about half of the earth's surface is less than 250 million years old, and only a few spots are older than 2.5 billion years.

 

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/structure/crust/maps.php

 

Many of the meteor impacts on the moon are older than 2.5 billion years, so that probably holds for the other rocky planets.

[jamiestem]

[jamiestem]

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/544/960/Sun_Expels_Monster_Fireball_400X_Bigger_than_Jupiter:_Expected_to_Hit_Earth_April_10_11.html

 

 

Um......

 

http://iswa.ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov:8080/IswaSystemWebApp/StreamArgumentServlet?cygnetInstanceId=172173343&argumentId=1

 

I just have to let the cat out of the bag even though I know you'll think I'm crazy, but I'm putting my pride aside. Some weird shit is going on with the sun, I wouldn't be writing in here if it wasnt. I get these messages from ghosts I thought, i mean maybe they're aliens, I don't know where the voices come from, but it's worth listening. I predicted 9/11. I am a seer. I had no interest in any of this a month ago. Is it any coincidence that these Coronal Mass Ejections are happening? Look at that article! It's crazy! I didn't look that up, it was on the news! I saw it and I freaked out, a Jupiter size fireball. I'm not arguing my theories anymore, that's not what this is about anymore. This is about a warning, coming through me, to more knowledgeable folks like yourselves. There is a reason for this. Believe or don't, but I think a major event is going to happen here.

[swansont]

CMEs are not unusual events, they do not turn into planets, and if they hit the earth, it means they are not orbiting.

[jamiestem]

I'm not saying it's orbiting, forget that.....and I know you want to downplay anything I have to say, but havent we just had 3 of the largest cornoal mass ejections in our history of recording the sun?

[swansont]

I'm not saying it's orbiting, forget that.....and I know you want to downplay anything I have to say, but havent we just had 3 of the largest cornoal mass ejections in our history of recording the sun?

 

Have we? And that history would be what fraction of the age of the sun — less than a part in 10^7, right? Five millipercent or so?

[swansont]

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Moderator Note

Given the meandering nature of the claims and utter lack of evidence to support them, this thread is now closed. Do not reintroduce the subject(s) elsewhere.

This is a science site. Speculations does not mean "anything goes."