Cancer Cell Question

[DIM TIM]

I started to post this in Molecular Biology, but as I started to think about it, I thought that it would probably be better to post here because of the speculation factor involved. I have no real scientific background other than the courses I took in school, and I was not an "A" student. But I was not a class dunce either. I love a good puzzel, and so I did well enough to pass my classes, and over the years I developed enough of a better understanding of the different diciplines, that when greater minds than mine start takling about certain things in their specific sciences, I can at least follow along and get their point. So here goes.

 

My mother just passed away this past year from cancer. Or perhaps I should say her fight against cancer. I believe it was the combination of the treatment, her age, and the chemical physiology of the cancer and the interaction of the drugs involved it the treatment process.

 

It has always been my belief that chemical switches and something else, interact with each other to cause the cancer cells to switch on and form. But the question has been.......what ?

 

I was doing some thinking yesterday on a completely different subject, and suddenly was struck by a thought........what if it is a disruption of a chemical process triggered by an outside force ? To be a bit more specific....what if the process at the cellular level is stopped or triggered by something other than a chemical process, say maybe something at the molecular or even the atomic level ?

 

What got me to thinking of this is not important, but it got me to thinking of an analogy that I could express to someone that would make sense. I have picked my brain for one or two that would work, but I am not quite sure if these will make sense or not, and for that matter, I may be way off in my thought process, but here goes.

 

 

All of the cells are doing what they do, each and every day. They have been doing this day in, and day out for as long as they have been in existance.

 

At a certain time, each one does "X", and then they go on to another state, where they do "Y". BUT.......about half way through the process, some stray atom comes along through inner space, and bumps into the nucleus, or one of the surrounding atoms and "BIP", the process is shut off or does the exact oposite of what it is supposed to do. It does "Z". Sort of like when you play billards. If you strike the object ball with the cue ball in just the right spot, you win the game by sinking the object ball in the desired pocket. If not, then you miss the pocket, or worse yet, you sink the object ball, and "SCRATCH" by sinking the cue ball as well. IN either case.......you lose.

 

In another thought, the cells are doing what they do, each and every day. Same as before. This time, just as they are doing their change, there is a disruption of the process at the molecular and/or the atomic level, but instead of a direct action by a stray atom, there is instead, a disruption of the process by a harmonic vibration passing through the cellular body, or in close proximity of that cell or group of cells. The one that comes to mind for this one is a bowl of Jello.

As it starts to set up, something shakes the bowl rather violently or moderately. Either way, the surface of the Jello in the bowl, will not be smooth to the naked eye, but may have a lot of surface distortion. It is still Jello, but now it is just a bit different than if the bowl was undisturbed as it was setting up.

 

As I said, these may not be the best descriptions of where I wanted to go in trying to describe my thoughts on this, but I think that everyone that reads this will get the point that I am trying to convey. I may not even be close with either, but I just wanted to put them out there for discussion.

 

Who knows, maybe my actions of putting this out here for others to consider, just might find the right person, and they just might be the one to get the answers right and figure a way to do away with this killer once and for all. And for all I know, it may give someone else the thought that may help to combat other problems we face in life.

 

So what about it ? Does anyone see where I was going with this, and am I looking in the right direction, or am I chasing a rabbit, so to speak ?

[ecoli]

How would you test this idea, what model systems would you use and what would predict from potential experiments?

[tya]

well, about how does the the cancer cells may evolve maybe u can consider it from the most important structure of cell itself_ the DNA. i had come across fews articles before which state that cancer can be inherited (correct me if this is wrong). After many extensive study were done, the similar potential DNA sequence that cause several types of cancers were found in some of the patients with similar diseases or in other words, it is encoded in our DNA as long as our DNA repair mechanisms cannot detect the defective region. so imo, since few groups of cells are different from the other, different type of cancer may arise in different individual but of course, not everyone with the defective DNA will get the disease. some other factors are crucial too. from your post, i agree that although these cells are functioning normally at first but until at a certain period, there is external trigger which disrupt their process or else, it is sure to occur but it just a matter of time.

[DIM TIM]

The reason that I posed this one was because I found myself going off at a tangent with my thinking.

I am trained in the electrical and the electronic sciences. I don't know a lot about the chemical parts of the science, but I do know that there is a relationship to the two of them, even down to the molecular level. Being that we are electro-chemical in nature.

 

As an electronic technician, I understand how vibrations, both mechanical and sonic, can effect certain things in certain ways. This is where this all started. I am just wondering if the interaction of the cells by either mechanical or sonic vibration, are being acted upon and/or interacted with in the chemical processes at or even below the molecular and the atomic levels.

 

Perhaps this is what triggers the cells to become cancerous in nature, and to spread as quickly as they do sometimes. Just a thought.

 

As to how you could test this theory........I haven't got to that part yet. It's sort of like you are writing a novel that might be 800 - 1000 pages in length. And I am still writing page 2 ! ! !

 

The answer for all of this may never be found in my lifetime, but like I mentioned in my original post...maybe someone will get an idea from something that I said, and VIOLA' they will find the cure. Too late for some people, but if just one can be saved later on, and then another......................

[Stefan-CoA]

What you are thinking of is what's best described as "radical damage". All those free radicals you keep hearing about on TV? Yeah that's pretty much it. Basically what it is, is a atom (usually oxygen, although others do exist) that carries only one electron, this is a highly reactive species and will pretty much break into whatever structure it comes into contact with. Sometimes this causes cancer, other times it gets sequestered by the necessary enzymes/co-factors. Rarely though will you find just a stray radical oxygen atom, it's usually (I think) in a carbon structure, like the acyl radical. As for certain single atoms doing the damage, I don't think so. Cells move atoms (Chlorine, Sodium, Potassium) in and out of the cell at the rate of several hundred or more per second, if cancer could be induced by atoms bumping against things we'd have serious trouble. Maybe you were thinking of radiation? High energy radiation (mostly gamma and high doses of x-ray - UV radiation too) push out enough energy to physically mutate DNA and the cellular structure, destroying things like p53 proteins, and all those other things that keep the cell replicating normally.

 

I should add at this point that cancerous cells are so-called "immortal" cells because the mechanisms for inducing apoptosis are defunct in some way. Meaning that these cells reproduce till kingdom come, and don't die either. Which is why you need highly toxic treatments (stuff that basically kills cells - this is why chemo and radio therapies are dangerous) to kill the cancer.

 

As for the vibration theory, I'm not quite sure I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that's a plausible idea. If vibrations were to be able to induce cancer, we'd not have invented things like rollercoasters or off-road vehicles, or even those funny vibrating thingies people stand on to get thinner. Maybe you're speaking of a different type of vibration though? I dunno, some quantum mechanics maybe? I know there's a group in the US that want to characterise the quantum processes behind cancer. Maybe they know of something.

 

Ultimately though, I think your case can best be explained by radiation.

 

@tya: Cancer itself is not hereditary, you can inherit genes giving you a higher chance of getting cancer though (I think you mentioned this) like the BRCA group of genes for example. But there are a myriad of epigenetic factors (and environmental) that are necessary to induce cancer. With specific mutations one might just need a lower dose for cells to become tumorigenic.