Belligerence in Space

[Sayonara]

Pretty much any period where there was a large dominant power.

Never before has anyone been able to target and destroy a unit or facility anywhere on the planet within minutes of receiving their orders.

 

 

For instance in the 19th Century the British ruled the waves. No other nation or combination of nations could challenge the Royal Navy. However times change, new technologies such as torpedo boats and submarines were developed which made some of the naval supremacy obselote. In addition other powers rose and insisted on building ships, the shipyards of the US, Italy and Japan soon provided hard competition.

Actually the collapse of our naval supremacy came from within, with the development of the Dreadnought. It was this that spurred other nations on to advance their naval technology and close the gap. So maybe there is a moral in there.

 

 

Unless the US declares that no other power is allowed in space at all and backs that up by destroying any non US presence then in time other nations will develop space technology and capability. It is clear the US isn't doing that.

Not right now, but the point of this thread is that the US military has expressed the desire and/or intention to make themselves capable of firing on arbitrary targets for whatever reasons they can come up with.

Putting anything up there that might in any way be used (eve if it's misuse) against them (or even looking like you're about to) could be seen by them as a hostile act. You've already seen footage of shoot first, ask later; I can be sure of that.

 

 

Sometime in the future other powers will be in a position of strength, the US will suffer economic problems or weak leadership or suffer some form of crisis. It happens to every power.

It's not my concern that they will have an Iron Claw that never goes away again; it's my concern that they will have one at all, for any period of time.

 

 

When that time comes it will be unable to hold on to the monopoly of space any more than the Spanish could keep a monopoly of the Americas or the Portugese of the trade with the East Indies.

The Spanish weren't capable of firing the rods of god platform at any target in the Americas or surrounding oceans by simply pressing a button. Really, historical comparisons of this sort are pointless. It's like saying that the Roman Empire was logically impossible because stone age man never conquered the world, whereas the Roman Empire could and did develop because their resource system, communications and weaponry were far more advanced.

[Aardvark]

Never before has anyone been able to target and destroy a unit or facility anywhere on the planet within minutes of receiving their orders.

 

Not right now' date=' but the point of this thread is that the US military has expressed the desire and/or intention to make themselves capable of firing on arbitrary targets for whatever reasons they can come up with.

Putting anything up there that might in any way be used (eve if it's misuse) against them (or even looking like you're about to) could be seen by them as a hostile act. You've already seen footage of shoot first, ask later; I can be sure of that.

 

It's not my concern that they will have an Iron Claw that never goes away again; it's my concern that they will have one [u']at all[/u], for any period of time.

I understand your concern, but don't believe the threat is real.

 

The US military can make all the declarations they want. Unless they stop another power using space, which they are not doing, then other powers will develop space technologies and capacities. They can make blowhard statements all they want, not even Donald Rumsfeld is going to authorise the blowing up of Chinese satelites or craft.

 

As such, they will not be able to impose a monopoly on space. The technological advantage they have now is not insummountable and when they talk of spending more, i say just look at the deficits. The Current account and the government are both heavily in deficit. There isn't a bottomless pit of money anymore for these extravangences.

 

That's why i'm not worried, just remember Ronald Reagans missile defence system that would make our nuclear deterent obsolete? Still waiting.

[Aardvark]

Never before has anyone been able to target and destroy a unit or facility anywhere on the planet within minutes of receiving their orders.

 

Not right now' date=' but the point of this thread is that the US military has expressed the desire and/or intention to make themselves capable of firing on arbitrary targets for whatever reasons they can come up with.

Putting anything up there that might in any way be used (eve if it's misuse) against them (or even looking like you're about to) could be seen by them as a hostile act. You've already seen footage of shoot first, ask later; I can be sure of that.

 

It's not my concern that they will have an Iron Claw that never goes away again; it's my concern that they will have one [u']at all[/u], for any period of time.

I understand your concern, but don't believe the threat is real.

 

The US military can make all the declarations they want. Unless they stop another power using space, which they are not doing, then other powers will develop space technologies and capacities. They can make blowhard statements all they want, not even Donald Rumsfeld is going to authorise the blowing up of Chinese satelites or craft.

 

As such, they will not be able to impose a monopoly on space. The technological advantage they have now is not insummountable and when they talk of spending more, i say just look at the deficits. The Current account and the government are both heavily in deficit. There isn't a bottomless pit of money anymore for these extravangences.

 

That's why i'm not worried, just remember Ronald Reagans missile defence system that would make our nuclear deterent obsolete? Still waiting.

[Sayonara]

I don't think you've read the article or the report it relates to. Possibly not even the whole thread.

 

To reiterate: From my point of view, fancy orbital weapons are the worst case scenario. The first phase of this is to be conducted using conventional systems that are already in place.

 

The budget issue is a fickle beast. What does the US do when its economy needs propping up? Drive the furnaces harder, maybe have a bit of a war.

 

Perhaps the administration and stock exchange will move so fast these weapons and tactics will never come about. But the actual threat here is the attitude towards non-Americanianoids and the egocentric self-belief that generated the report in the first place.

[Sayonara]

I don't think you've read the article or the report it relates to. Possibly not even the whole thread.

 

To reiterate: From my point of view, fancy orbital weapons are the worst case scenario. The first phase of this is to be conducted using conventional systems that are already in place.

 

The budget issue is a fickle beast. What does the US do when its economy needs propping up? Drive the furnaces harder, maybe have a bit of a war.

 

Perhaps the administration and stock exchange will move so fast these weapons and tactics will never come about. But the actual threat here is the attitude towards non-Americanianoids and the egocentric self-belief that generated the report in the first place.

[Aardvark]

I did read the thread and understand your points.

 

I am not worried because i don't think the Americans can back up this bombastic nonsense.

 

Even with succesful conventional weapons they would have to force all other powers out of space now to enforce a monopoly. For obvious reasons countries like Russia and China won't allow that to happen.

 

I do understand your concern about the mindset it betrays, the arrogance is immense. But pride comes before a fall. Speaking like that will alienate pretty much everybody, when they need help or co operation it will boomerang on them.

[Aardvark]

I did read the thread and understand your points.

 

I am not worried because i don't think the Americans can back up this bombastic nonsense.

 

Even with succesful conventional weapons they would have to force all other powers out of space now to enforce a monopoly. For obvious reasons countries like Russia and China won't allow that to happen.

 

I do understand your concern about the mindset it betrays, the arrogance is immense. But pride comes before a fall. Speaking like that will alienate pretty much everybody, when they need help or co operation it will boomerang on them.

[Sayonara]

And on us, don't forget. *cough* Flyingdales *cough*

 

I suspect the USA has enough sat->sat killers up there already to knock everything else down, including all communist flying devil boxes.

[Sayonara]

And on us, don't forget. *cough* Flyingdales *cough*

 

I suspect the USA has enough sat->sat killers up there already to knock everything else down, including all communist flying devil boxes.

[Aardvark]

And on us' date=' don't forget. *cough* Flyingdales *cough*

 

I suspect the USA has enough sat->sat killers up there already to knock everything else down, including all communist flying devil boxes.[/quote']

 

True, but i'm sort of hoping that it'll boomerang in a way that doesn't involve louds bangs and bright flashes in my neighbourhood.

 

Perhaps a major run on the dollar, compounding a difficulty selling Treasury bonds to fund the deficits all mixed up with a trade war with China. That could teach them some humility and understanding of interdependance.

[Aardvark]

And on us' date=' don't forget. *cough* Flyingdales *cough*

 

I suspect the USA has enough sat->sat killers up there already to knock everything else down, including all communist flying devil boxes.[/quote']

 

True, but i'm sort of hoping that it'll boomerang in a way that doesn't involve louds bangs and bright flashes in my neighbourhood.

 

Perhaps a major run on the dollar, compounding a difficulty selling Treasury bonds to fund the deficits all mixed up with a trade war with China. That could teach them some humility and understanding of interdependance.

[Sayonara]

The economic rise of China could be quite funny in a devastating, "the West have decided we look better without our nose" kind of way.

[Sayonara]

The economic rise of China could be quite funny in a devastating, "the West have decided we look better without our nose" kind of way.