Good idea for Fukushima?

[Fukushimahelp]

Hi all, just registered to see what people thought of this idea.

 

I believe the latest problem is that the containment pits have cracked, allowing contaminated water to leak into the sea. Why not use gelatine to turn the contaminated water to jelly and reduce how penetrating it is? It may also reduce evaporation

 

If this seems reasonable, how can we get the message to tepco?

[swansont]

I believe they are still trying to pump water to cool the core, so increasing the viscosity probably isn't a good idea.

 

As far as contacting tepco goes, thinking you have an idea that hasn't occurred to professional plant operators is a bit naive.

[CaptainPanic]

The water inside the reactor must indeed be ordinary water. It is meant to cool only, and as soon as it turned to steam, it must go out. It must evaporate, so it's pointless to turn it into a jelly.

 

But radioactive water outside the reactor serves no purpose (not for cooling at least), and it should be contained. Turning it into a jelly might be an idea... although there are other materialsthat can absorb much more water.

 

swansont, I disagree with your comment that professional plant operators have considered all the options. It is just not true that professionals always consider all the options, and it's not even true that all options even occur to them... The idea of Fukushimahelp seems like a typical 'out-of-the-box' thinking, and while some experts or professionals might have had the same idea, it's at least plausible that this idea hasn't penetrated to the decision-taking level at Fukushima (i.e. management).

 

As for Fukushimahelp's last question: the operators and management in Japan are really too busy to read all the mail they get from all over the world. You cannot contact them directly. You might want to contact some local expert, or some other intermediate person. This forum is English and anonymous, so it won't do you much good to reach anyone. You need a real reference of some kind.

[swansont]

swansont, I disagree with your comment that professional plant operators have considered all the options. It is just not true that professionals always consider all the options, and it's not even true that all options even occur to them... The idea of Fukushimahelp seems like a typical 'out-of-the-box' thinking, and while some experts or professionals might have had the same idea, it's at least plausible that this idea hasn't penetrated to the decision-taking level at Fukushima (i.e. management).

 

Not penetrating the bureaucracy is not the same thing, but does a nonprofessional and outsider have a better or worse chance of penetrating it? And do you want a bureaucracy that would make a decision like that without vetting it with the professionals?

 

What it boils down to (as it were) is that someone both unschooled in the science and engineering and unfamiliar with the details of the situation can't comprehend the breadth and/or depth of the problem. It's naive to think that you'll get the right answer without it. If it's an extant solution, then the pros already know about it. (We see this general effect in action all the time around SFN; it's not a matter of smart or not, it's a matter of background)

[CaptainPanic]

Not penetrating the bureaucracy is not the same thing, but does a nonprofessional and outsider have a better or worse chance of penetrating it? And do you want a bureaucracy that would make a decision like that without vetting it with the professionals?

Of course professionals should be consulted before any action is taken. In fact, it's professionals who should take the action, so logically they will have the decision themselves.

 

What it boils down to (as it were) is that someone both unschooled in the science and engineering and unfamiliar with the details of the situation can't comprehend the breadth and/or depth of the problem. It's naive to think that you'll get the right answer without it. If it's an extant solution, then the pros already know about it. (We see this general effect in action all the time around SFN; it's not a matter of smart or not, it's a matter of background)

Then explain why the problem is any more complicated than just trying to keep the water just where it is? Note that right now it leaks into the ocean, and therefore we're talking about water that is there in Fukushima, but that is not actively used for cooling.

 

And why do you conclude that Fukushimahelp is unschooled in the science and engineering and unfamiliar with the details of the situation?

He or she has only just signed up, and posts an idea which I think isn't completely unreasonable (it's certaily up there in the crazy ideas section together with "trying to cool a nuclear reactor by dumping water from a helicopter", which has already been tried).

[swansont]

Then explain why the problem is any more complicated than just trying to keep the water just where it is? Note that right now it leaks into the ocean, and therefore we're talking about water that is there in Fukushima, but that is not actively used for cooling.

 

And why do you conclude that Fukushimahelp is unschooled in the science and engineering and unfamiliar with the details of the situation?

He or she has only just signed up, and posts an idea which I think isn't completely unreasonable (it's certaily up there in the crazy ideas section together with "trying to cool a nuclear reactor by dumping water from a helicopter", which has already been tried).

 

I think you make my point for me. If you have to ask whom to contact, then you're an outsider — you don't know whom to contact. If you were in the loop, you'd know whom to call. If you don't understand the difficulties involved, then you don't have the background to appreciate the difficulties. If you have a history of doing something for years — something that requires experience and skill — you've probably had occasion to get a comment from someone who suggests some course of action that is similarly naive, e.g. the computer tech who has someone tell them "maybe you should reboot."

[zapatos]

I don't know if it benefited them in any way, but during the BP oil spill in the gulf, BP's High Interest Technology Team took proposals regarding oil cleanup and methods to stop the leak, from outsiders. Obviously the gulf spill was a slow moving disaster and didn't have much chance of causing thousands of deaths, so I don't know if the solicitation of ideas from outsiders applies in this situation.

 

However, you never know when someone might have a useful technique that has just not become common knowledge yet. If tepco believes there is no chance that an outsider has an idea that has not occurred to them, I think it is they who are being naive.

 

In a break with past procedures, the HITT group is taking a significant number of proposals from outsiders. The setup reflects how severe the problem is and how the months-long disaster has caught the attention of inventors eager to address the problem.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20011323-54.html

Edited April 4, 2011 by zapatos

[Genecks]

Groupthink is bad, folks.

 

Problem is actually finding a place to bounce ideas of intelligent people and see if they say, "Actually, that might work."

 

But at least we have SFN, a place where people can discuss ideas.

There is another thread in the news board where people are also discussing this issue.

[zapatos]

Groupthink is bad, folks.

 

Problem is actually finding a place to bounce ideas of intelligent people and see if they say, "Actually, that might work."

Those two statements sound mutually exclusive to me. Can you expand on this a bit?

[CaptainPanic]

I think you make my point for me. If you have to ask whom to contact, then you're an outsider — you don't know whom to contact. If you were in the loop, you'd know whom to call. If you don't understand the difficulties involved, then you don't have the background to appreciate the difficulties. If you have a history of doing something for years — something that requires experience and skill — you've probably had occasion to get a comment from someone who suggests some course of action that is similarly naive, e.g. the computer tech who has someone tell them "maybe you should reboot."

TEPCO do not have a lot of experience fixing broken and leaking nuclear reactors after an earthquake and a tsunami. They have zero experience in containing polluted water on site but outside any carefully designed equipment.

 

Assuming that it is a good idea to keep contaminated water on site for treatment or permanent storage at a later stage, then the best experts in this case are probably some civil engineers and hydraulic engineers. I maintain that the nuclear engineers at TEPCO are very inexperienced at this kinds of problems, because until 1 month ago, they had never encountered it or trained for it... Your assumption that they have actually thought of all the possibilities cannot be proven.

 

If the nuclear reactors were in normal operation, or would undergo any carefully planned maintenance or upgrading, then most certainly the experts would not need any input from some outsider who 'thinks outside the box'. They are within their own expertise and training.

But a 10 meter high tsunami and a 9.0 earthquake moved the entire nuclear site outside of the box, which makes this kind of thinking necessary.

 

However, it's probably the company (TEPCO) which have to open themselves to ideas from outsiders... and that'll be a huge leap, because it would admit that they actually don't know how to solve it. BP eventually did it in the Gulf. TEPCO does not (yet).

[swansont]

The cause of the leaks/problems don't really matter. You think that the engineers have no experience dealing with broken systems, or can't pick up a phone to call other reactor operators? Furthermore, they understand how the systems work. Thinking about solutions without that knowledge is, by definition, naive.

[zapatos]

To CP's point, what expertise do the plant operators have when dealing with problems that are more related to civil or hydraulic engineering, materials science, building a barrier in the ocean to limit distribution of radioactive waste in the ocean, etc.? It seems to me that the further the problem extends beyond the confines of the plant, the more the need for outside expertise.

[CaptainPanic]

The cause of the leaks/problems don't really matter. You think that the engineers have no experience dealing with broken systems, or can't pick up a phone to call other reactor operators? Furthermore, they understand how the systems work. Thinking about solutions without that knowledge is, by definition, naive.

We're dealing with a typical miscommunication in this thread between you and me.

I think that the engineers are fully capable of fixing their broken reactor. They are the best choice to do this work, and we cannot really provide much help. They can fix piping like the best. They understand their reactor. They understand radiation dangers. They probably know exactly which pipe is still working, and which is broken. They can prioritize what needs to be fixed first. And for the coming months/years, I would leave it up to them to secure the reactor itself, and to decommission the reactors... I completely agree with you on that.

 

However, the problem spread well beyond their reactor, and is now spilling into the ocean.

 

All the time, you're talking about the reactor. But the OP mentioned water spilling into the sea, which is outside the reactor.

[swansont]

Someone agrees with me, at least

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2011/apr/06/1

[zapatos]

It only took TEPCO about two weeks to realize what had been so glaringly obviously to many - namely that the company is largely unprepared to deal successfully with the Fukushima catastrophe on its own. Reuters reports that TEPCO, which has conceded it faces a protracted and uncertain operation to contain the crisis, sought outside help, asking help from French firms including Electricite de France SA and Areva SA. The question now arises whether it is too late for any help to come, and how fast before the sudden inlfux of new cooks spoils the radioactive broth. The news comes after TEPCO announced highly radioactive water has leaked from a reactor at Japan's crippled nuclear complex, as environmental group Greenpeace said it had detected high levels of radiation outside an exclusion zone.

 

From Reuters:

 

Reflecting growing unease about efforts to control the six-reactor Fukushima Daiichi complex, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) had appealed to French companies for help, the Kyodo news agency said.

 

The plant, 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo, was damaged in a March 11 earthquake and tsunami that left more than 27,000 people dead or missing across northeast Japan.

 

Fires, explosions and radiation leaks have repeatedly forced engineers to suspend efforts to stabilise the plant, including on Sunday when radiation levels spiked to 100,000 times above normal in water inside reactor No. 2.

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tepco-finally-seeks-outside-help-pot-calls-kettle-radioactive-government-says-not-trust-gree

[Thomas Voelkel]

I had a good idea. maybe take a pencial and draw it on a piece of paper.

 

 

Cologne, 06.04.2011

 

 

Hello,

 

here is an idea you maybe can cover all reactor plants in Fukushima by an easy way.

(1) Take four tower cranes and put every crane on one of the four sides to form a tetragon/quad. (you can also use another kind of crane)

(2) In the height of around 20-30 meter (depend of the reactor height) let the crane boom (long horizontal jib - working arm) going down in an angle of 90°. All cranes have now the same height (the latticed Booms) and exact the same angle (working arm). The cranes form now four frames. Because the end of the one working arm is close to the other crane. You will see a cube. (you can connect it maybe this http://www.metaklett.de/

it would work like a hook-and-loop fastener out of steel to stabilise your construction. It would be like a cuff. you can maybe also use it to stabilse the cement/glass-sarcophagus later on.)

(3) You have now the possibility to put over the cube a big cover/slab. This cover should be if possible a little bit transparent to have inside a little bit daylight (like the milkey way). Afterwards if the constuction is stable you can spray resin on the cover to make it more stable. (think maybe about the heat you need a cover which can resist some heat). You have to descide if the 4 cranes are completley covered or hold the cover by steel robes over the reactor. Or you can make it like for sails which are lifted by the working arms and afterwards you put an cover over it like a hat.

(4) The end of the cover you can glue to the floor.

(5) Before you put the cover over the four cranes put maybe cameras or measurement instrument or spotlight/lamps under the cover by robes. So you can have a look inside the reactor.

(6) You can use now also the four operators cab for measurement and control work later on.

(7) Probably you can use the cranes from the finished construction of the new Skytree Tower in Tokio.

(8) You need maybe later on the possibiliy to put a mixture of glass or cement on the reactor to make a sarcophagus. so you should maybe prepare a pipe for it. before you cover.

(9) see tower cranes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crane_%28machine%29 .

(10) I would be happy for your feedback.

 

Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

 

Greetings and ;-)

 

Thomas Völkel

 

dersieger@gmx.li

[PhDwannabe]

Groupthink is bad, folks.

 

Problem is actually finding a place to bounce ideas of intelligent people and see if they say, "Actually, that might work."

 

But at least we have SFN, a place where people can discuss ideas.

 

Genecks, since you haven't yet clarified, I'll make my best guess as to what you're getting at here: If the implication here is that the engineers and decisionmakers at Tepco are engaging in groupthink--and hence, need a bunch of outsiders to come give them fresh ideas--I don't think that's warranted. Groupthink is really widely misunderstood. It's not "the way groups think." It's what sometimes happens in particular groups with particular characteristics. Typically, the groups have extremely high cohesion and are motivated to maintain this cohesion; in so doing, they often "overminimize" conflict between members, to the extent that disagreement gets tamped down quite a bit. Often, the groups are homogenous in values, and hierarchically led. To some extent, they're isolated from outside opinion and may be excessively motivated to produce decisions.

 

Bottom line, you can't casually observe a group from the outside and readily identify whether they're under the sway of these factors, though we like to assume that every corporate board or team we don't happen to like is under groupthink's power. Organizations can and do use social psychological principles to adjust group structure to avoid groupthink--there were broad and deep movements to do so in the science and engineering world particularly after several commentaries on the Challenger disaster identified a lot of potential groupthink processes. Not saying these groups don't have their problems. I'm just saying that yelling "groupthink" is an easy and difficult-to-justify potshot.

 

 

</psychology-speak>

You can now return to your regularly scheduled engineering discussion.

Edited April 7, 2011 by PhDwannabe

[Iggy]

I believe the latest problem is that the containment pits have cracked, allowing contaminated water to leak into the sea. Why not use gelatine to turn the contaminated water to jelly and reduce how penetrating it is? It may also reduce evaporation

 

If this seems reasonable, how can we get the message to tepco?

 

I think that's a very good idea. Unfortunately, one day after you proposed it, the folks in Japan gave it a try and it wasn't successful.

 

Sunday, 3 April

 

The radioactive water leak into the sea by unit 2 continued despite concrete pumped Saturday evening. Workers injected a mixture of a water-absorbing polymer, sawdust and shredded paper. The polymer, intended to swell to 500 times its initial volume, did not set. Radiation levels in the water were estimated at 1 Sv/h.

 

Wikipedia: Timeline of the Fukushima I nuclear accidents

 

I don't know which polymer exactly, but probably sodium polyacrylate which does probably exactly what you were thinking when mentioning gelatin:

 

 

I don't know if it benefited them in any way, but during the BP oil spill in the gulf, BP's High Interest Technology Team took proposals regarding oil cleanup and methods to stop the leak, from outsiders.

 

I like the analogy. What jumped out at me is that all the laymen, looking at the underwater footage, said "unbolt the riser and bolt on a cap -- that would stop the leak". I heard many experts reject the idea as simplistic and naive. James Cameron, who led a team of engineers looking for solutions at the time, said:

 

There are good engineers out there. And I think they're parallel processing and working very hard. They're working the problem. It's not for want of trying. It's a very, very complex problem to solve. Probably, you know, like most people, I certainly, you know, looked at the images on the TV from the ROVs, and I said, let's just cap this thing.

 

Let's just get a cap on it. Let's bolt something down. Let's get a big pipe wrench, you know. And that's how we all think. We think of it as a plumbing problem. What we're not thinking about is what's happening thousands of feet down inside this oil well, and you got these very high pressures. Our group calculated, it's 13,000 PSI at the bottom of the well. So, you don't stop the well at the top. You can throttle it, you can control it, and you can get some of the oil out of there, but you can't just stop it. You can't shut it off like a faucet or it will blow out somewhere else.

 

But, the plumbing solution is exactly what ended up stopping the leak. They used a "capping stack".

Edited April 7, 2011 by Iggy

[CaptainPanic]

Someone agrees with me, at least

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2011/apr/06/1

swansont, you're ignoring the point I am trying to make, and to make it worse, you post a link that does nothing but mock the OP and myself.

I'm a little disappointed.

[Idares]

We also found many discussion groups doing serious thinking while I doubt that those ideas finally make their way to TEPCO.

 

There is an approach to bundle ideas and risk analysis in a Non-profit Open Innovation portal as contribution to end nuke crisis in Fukushima.

The situation at Fukushima Daiichi is still as difficult as 4 weeks ago. Engineers struggle to stabilize the situation and progress is difficult to achieve in view of numerous issues to be solved simultaneously.

To bundle technical expert knowledge - now distributed over a number of web sites - InventCap started a nonprofit open innovation portal "Help to stop nuke crisis in Fukushima": http://system.aipivalue.com/fukushima

 

Technical proposals about health and environment protection, cooling systems, radiation protection, general plant repair issues and measurement techniques will be collected and rated. Promising proposals will be forwarded to IAEA and TEPCO.

 

Considering the huge risk portfolio in Fukushima and the threat to people there it sounds worthwhile to try all means to get ideas organized and forwarded to the crisis management.

[Thomas Voelkel]

Hello togehter,

 

today i thought about my intentions, why i wanted to make a brainstorming and finding solutions and helping the people in Japan.

 

I think i was shooked about the pictures in TV, Also i was very impressed about how calm the Japanese people were in this crisis. But also i wanted to bring the ideas in the world, that the ideas are in the world and to be part of the world wide brainpool finding solutions in the first weeks of the crisis (especially the idea this the tent-like structure to cover the reactor this using cranes or the idea binding radioactivity)

 

I think in the first weeks the crisis management from tepco could habe been better. But see below I have found very interesting links and presentations. From the presentation side i am impressed how Tepco and the Japanese goverment present the roadmap.

 

 

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/incidents/pdfs/press/20110517/foreign-press-briefing-20110517-tepco.pdf

 

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/incidents/pdfs/press/20110517/foreign-press-briefing-20110517-meti.pdf

 

http://www.aesj.or.jp/information/fnpp201103/icapp2011_Omoto_WEBrevision20110517.pdf

 

 

I think the biggest mistake was that the world wide creative brainpool could have been used better to solve the problems in fukushima, when the crisis started and in the beginning.

Because I think if the goverment/tepco had established something like an intelligent internet site on which people/universities around the world could have taken part in finding solutions or share ideas. We could have been further today in solving the problems. It is like a puzzle. Or fukushima is like a big huge puzzle (see the presentations above). You have to find solutions for so many problems - Radiation shielding of the reactors to protect the air, sea and soil, to stabilzie the reactor, to find ways against condamination of the water and so on and so on.

And also such a platform of ideas could be very good for the companies involved because the ideas can be used for new security products in the nuclear industry.

But also I think we as citiziens of one country have also the fault that something like a big platform of sharing ideas is not established because the most people expect from their own government that it has everything under control by itself. But maybe the future will bring a change that we feel in such situations more like a big world wide community to help each other. I have hope.

 

(To Idares your link for sharing ideas looks exciting)

[Thomas Voelkel]

Hello Together,

 

here are my new ideas.

 

(1) This is a possibility to store water in felxible special water tanks. (If you do not have space on land you can also put it in the sea and get it out later for the decontamination of the water) It is for 210,000 gallons (800,000 liters/800 tons)

 

http://www.water-storage-tank.com/portable_tanks.html

 

 

(2) Coverage of the reactor buildings this cooling affect: In Switzerland, Austria and Germany there are big glacier covered plans which cover really large areas and have the affect of cooling the ice glacier. Moreover, they seem quite stable and weather resistant to cover the reactor building if they can also withstand the Alpine weather. (in the article are also pictures of the cover - for the translation you can use the google translater)

 

http://www.raonline.ch/pages/edu/nat/glacier08a02.html

 

http://www.landolt.com/img/pdf/PDF_Datenblatt_Outdoor/Ice_Protector-DE.pdf

 

http://www.landolt.com/wDeutsch/produkte/uebersicht/uebersicht_produkte.asp?navid=35

 

http://www.krone.at/Wissen/Schweizer_Gletscher_wird_wieder_ausgepackt-Idee_aus_Oesterreich-Story-32222/index.html

 

(2) There are also extra sheets for greenhouses which have a cooling effect

 

http://www.folien-bernhardt.de/pdf/sun-silver-cool.pdf

 

http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/agricultural-greenhouse-interior-shading-screen-319685749.html

 

(3) Entrance areas and shelters for the plant because of the storm.

 

http://www.aufblasbare-zelte.com/

 

http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/large-tent-huge-tent-inflatable-giant-tent-271591711.html

 

(4)

Following the spraying of resin may be the ground can not take more water on. There probably you have to find solutions to allow water to flow somewhere or to absorb it. I think it can be dangerous for workers to walk through a radioactive puddle.

 

http://www.archiexpo.de/video/stutzbauwerke-fundamente-abwasserreinigung-P.html

 

(5) To handle the radioactive water better, it may be appropriate to incorporate that element of evaporation. At the moment i think there are extra buildings where radioactive water is currently being treated and decontaminated. A cover of this building can possibly accelerate the process.

 

http://www.poolsgarden.de/pool-zubehoer/solare-poolabdeckung/

 

http://schwimmbecken-vosspools.at/index.php?id=21

 

By the way the material of pool covers can also be interesting to cover the reactor but they should have of course no heating affect.

[The_Math]

I had a good idea. maybe take a pencial and draw it on a piece of paper.

 

 

Cologne, 06.04.2011

 

 

Hello,

 

here is an idea you maybe can cover all reactor plants in Fukushima by an easy way.

(1) Take four tower cranes and put every crane on one of the four sides to form a tetragon/quad. (you can also use another kind of crane)

(2) In the height of around 20-30 meter (depend of the reactor height) let the crane boom (long horizontal jib - working arm) going down in an angle of 90°. All cranes have now the same height (the latticed Booms) and exact the same angle (working arm). The cranes form now four frames. Because the end of the one working arm is close to the other crane. You will see a cube. (you can connect it maybe this http://www.metaklett.de/

it would work like a hook-and-loop fastener out of steel to stabilise your construction. It would be like a cuff. you can maybe also use it to stabilse the cement/glass-sarcophagus later on.)

(3) You have now the possibility to put over the cube a big cover/slab. This cover should be if possible a little bit transparent to have inside a little bit daylight (like the milkey way). Afterwards if the constuction is stable you can spray resin on the cover to make it more stable. (think maybe about the heat you need a cover which can resist some heat). You have to descide if the 4 cranes are completley covered or hold the cover by steel robes over the reactor. Or you can make it like for sails which are lifted by the working arms and afterwards you put an cover over it like a hat.

(4) The end of the cover you can glue to the floor.

(5) Before you put the cover over the four cranes put maybe cameras or measurement instrument or spotlight/lamps under the cover by robes. So you can have a look inside the reactor.

(6) You can use now also the four operators cab for measurement and control work later on.

(7) Probably you can use the cranes from the finished construction of the new Skytree Tower in Tokio.

(8) You need maybe later on the possibiliy to put a mixture of glass or cement on the reactor to make a sarcophagus. so you should maybe prepare a pipe for it. before you cover.

(9) see tower cranes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crane_%28machine%29 .

(10) I would be happy for your feedback.

 

Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

 

Greetings and ;-)

 

Thomas Völkel

 

dersieger@gmx.li

 

 

Congratulation Thomas for your brilliant idea to cover the reactor building in fukushima daiichi.

Your idea was not an idea it seems to be the solution to cover the reactor building this polyester sheets and use cranes to build the piles for the construction.

 

 

You can see exactly in the links how to build a tower crane and if you compare it how tepco will build the reactor cover it seems to be the same. The piles that Tepco describes is nothing else then your idea. And the special thing what is used to erect the tower crane if it has reached a special height they use it for the crossbar between the piles or lattice boom. And to build a tower crane they use by the way a crawler crane you can also see it in the video.

 

 

So see links.

 

 

• The realisation by tepco
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2003901/Fukushima-entombed-Nuclear-firm-reveal-plans-covering-shield-reactor-stop-leaks.html
  

 

• Your idea this the cranes
  

 

• And the same to use a crawler crane how Tepco does to erect a tower crane/lattice boom
  

 

And compare it this your idea number #16 …………. (Okay this the height of the building you were wrong but nobody is perfect.)

 

 

Did you get any reaction from Tepco or from the Japanese Government for your idea?

 

 

Greetings

 

 

From the Mathematics

 

 

[Thomas Voelkel]

Hello Math,

 

No I have not received an answer because of the the realiziation of the idea (around 80-90%). I have also sent this idea in the same time to Tepco, Toshiba and three other companies involved and three newspaper. (In my email I gave partly also the advice to install filters in the construction shell.) I got a very nice reply from the Mainichi newspaper. The newspaper liked the idea and gave me the advice to sent it to one govermental adress.

 

Greetings

Thomas

 

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS-Fukushima_cover_on_its_way-2706118.html

 

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/covers-for-fukushima-reactors-to-use-dome-stadium-technologies

 

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110620004790.htm

 

 

 

 

[Enthalpy]

I confirm that many ideas applied at Fukushima dai-ichi were picked on the Internet. Some ideas that popped up at the plant were exotic enough (use a concrete pump lorry to pour water on the reactors, add a radio remote control to hydraulic cranes...) that other people improbably had the same one.

 

The cover added to the #1 building resembles what Thomas described here, though it's permanent and doesn't use crane masts..

 

Over which path the ideas arrived at the plant is unclear to me. Several US entities helped a lot at Dai-ichi: the armed forces, the company that designed the reactors... I wouldn't exclude that these were culturally prone to adopt good ideas despite not being the authors, and were extremely reactive. I ignore the Japanese culture and how easily entities there adopt external ideas. And that many people read Internet forums is already clear.

 

----------

 

Again a thread here that isn't accessible through Google nor with the Internet address. Their supplied link fails.

From the Engineering subforum list here, the links in the title and to the first page fails, the link to the second page works.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Enthalpy