see through matter and space

[Ivan Tuzikov]

Hello everybody. Thanks for your time and sorry for any grammatical mistakes cause I'm non native speaker

 

The question is the following:

Is there any physical possibility for any essence (creature) to see from some point in outer space any object on earth with the help of unknown particles or radiation (that is not by means of visible light to see through atmosphere, building roofs) and remain invisible in electromagnetic spectrum?

I know the question is strange but it is connected with the issue of all-seeing and I have an argue about this issue with my colleague. (as you can understand we are not physicists )))

 

Thanks in advance.

[lemur]

The atmosphere filters x-rays and microwaves, which penetrate some materials that other forms of light don't. I don't know if there are materials that are totally visually impenetrable from outer space, though. If you say what are you trying to hide from satellite view, maybe someone tell you if I can think of a way to detect it:) Just kidding, I know you probably aren't trying to hide anything but if you gave examples, people could give more specific opinions, I think.

[swansont]

"With the help of unknown particles or radiation" makes this purely hypothetical, since we could not have discovered such things.

 

If you want to detect a signal using known particles, it is possible in principle. You could detect particles other than photons which are emitted and could penetrate, such as neutrons or neutrinos. But it would be exceedingly difficult.

[Ivan Tuzikov]

Thanks guys!

I would rephrase my question: is there any physical possibility that god (as a person somewhere in outer space) can physically be all-seeing and see everything and everybody on earth surface and inside buildings.

Though this notion of god is absolutely hypothetical still my question lies in scientific field (pure physical theoretical possibility) rather than in religious field.

Again, I'm just theoritizing. Please consider this abstract situation only according to physical laws. do not consider miracles.

 

p.s. As I already wrote I had argued with my colleague who studies in theological institute and who is eastern church orthodox and who believes in existence of all-seeing god.

p.p.s. sorry for a heap of grammatical mistakes.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Ivan Tuzikov

[lemur]

Thanks guys!

I would rephrase my question: is there any physical possibility that god (as a person somewhere in outer space) can physically be all-seeing and see everything and everybody on earth surface and inside buildings.

Though this notion of god is absolutely hypothetical still my question lies in scientific field (pure physical theoretical possibility) rather than in religious field.

Again, I'm just theoritizing. Please consider this abstract situation only according to physical laws. do not consider miracles.

 

p.s. As I already wrote I had argued with my colleague who studies in theological institute and who is eastern church orthodox and who believes in existence of all-seeing god.

p.p.s. sorry for a heap of grammatical mistakes.

I'm afraid my answer to this is based in religious philosophy more than physics. I would say that because God is part of every human's subjectivity (soul if you want to call it that), God sees everything that humans do through their eyes AND God is the ultimate wisdom, experience, and consciousness that knows all there is to know about everything because of its nature. God would also know every possible interpretation and implication of every possible outcome of all imaginable variables. I.e. God is the ideal of omnipotence, so all forms of power you can imagine are attributed to the idea of God. So if you can fathom the possibility of seeing everything, God can do it. God doesn't have to obey the limits of nature, only because humans can imagine the power to limitless overcome such limits. You see how it works? God is imagined as an ideal so anything you can possibly imagine is what God is and can do.

[mooeypoo]

I'm afraid my answer to this is based in religious philosophy more than physics. I would say that because God is part of every human's subjectivity (soul if you want to call it that), God sees everything that humans do through their eyes AND God is the ultimate wisdom, experience, and consciousness that knows all there is to know about everything because of its nature. God would also know every possible interpretation and implication of every possible outcome of all imaginable variables. I.e. God is the ideal of omnipotence, so all forms of power you can imagine are attributed to the idea of God. So if you can fathom the possibility of seeing everything, God can do it. God doesn't have to obey the limits of nature, only because humans can imagine the power to limitless overcome such limits. You see how it works? God is imagined as an ideal so anything you can possibly imagine is what God is and can do.

 

!

Moderator Note

lemur, you already know you should avoid going off topic. This is thread-hijacking, it's against the rules. Start new threads when you go off-topic. Apologizing for it while doing it is not solving the issue.

[csmyth3025]

Thanks guys!

I would rephrase my question: is there any physical possibility that.......a person somewhere in outer space... can physically be all-seeing and see everything and everybody on earth surface and inside buildings.

 

...my question lies in scientific field (pure physical theoretical possibility)

Swansont provided one possible theoretical answer to your question (edited by me to emphasize that this is a question about scientific theory). Neutrinos can handily pass through our atmosphere and buildings without interference. Unfortunately, they can also pass very easily through people, the Earth, and whatever type of telescope you may be using as if they aren't even there. For these reasons Swansont describes using them to see anything as "exceedingly difficult". I would go one step further and say that there is no known way, at present, by which this can be done.

 

Another possible candidate might be gravitational waves. They, also, can pass unhindered through things. Like neutrinos, there is no known way, at present, by which they can be used to see anything.

 

There are real scientific conjectures, however, that we might one day learn how to use neutrinos and gravity waves in somewhat the same way we use light.

 

I would put these conjectures loosely in the same category as Jules Verne's 1865 novel "From the Earth to the Moon" in which the protagonists are shot to the moon from a huge cannon. The correct details are missing, but the basic idea might be possible one day if our scientific knowledge and engineering expertise becomes sufficiently advanced.

 

In 1865 I'm sure everyone thought that the idea of actually going to the moon was pure fantasy. I suspect that Mr. Verne viewed the possibility a bit more seriously.

 

Chris

[Ivan Tuzikov]

Swansont provided one possible theoretical answer to your question (edited by me to emphasize that this is a question about scientific theory). Neutrinos can handily pass through our atmosphere and buildings without interference. Unfortunately, they can also pass very easily through people, the Earth, and whatever type of telescope you may be using as if they aren't even there. For these reasons Swansont describes using them to see anything as "exceedingly difficult". I would go one step further and say that there is no known way, at present, by which this can be done.

 

Another possible candidate might be gravitational waves. They, also, can pass unhindered through things. Like neutrinos, there is no known way, at present, by which they can be used to see anything.

 

There are real scientific conjectures, however, that we might one day learn how to use neutrinos and gravity waves in somewhat the same way we use light.

 

I would put these conjectures loosely in the same category as Jules Verne's 1865 novel "From the Earth to the Moon" in which the protagonists are shot to the moon from a huge cannon. The correct details are missing, but the basic idea might be possible one day if our scientific knowledge and engineering expertise becomes sufficiently advanced.

 

In 1865 I'm sure everyone thought that the idea of actually going to the moon was pure fantasy. I suspect that Mr. Verne viewed the possibility a bit more seriously.

 

Chris

Thanks Chris!

But if I'am correct when we see sth (and build an image of this object) by means of x-ray, infrared, etc., i.e. by means of non-visible light we can't get the same picture as we actually see things.

So it can be possible to build some kind of image by means of, say, gravity waves but this won't allow us to get the same image as we get by means of our eyes.

Am I right?

Edited April 13, 2011 by Ivan Tuzikov

[csmyth3025]

Thanks Chris!

But if I'am correct when we see sth (and build an image of this object) by means of x-ray, infrared, etc., i.e. by means of non-visible light we can't get the same picture as we actually see things.

So it can be possible to build some kind of image by means of, say, gravity waves but this won't allow us to get the same image as we get by means of our eyes.

Am I right?

We do get realistc videos of the sun in UV light and other wavelengths - and astronomers combine infrared, visible, UV and x-ray images in various ways to make pictures of galaxies and other astronomical objects.

 

I really don't have a clue about what kind of an image gravity waves or neutrinos could produce. I'm sure such images would have to be computer generated from a data stream. I doubt if any sort of "real time video" is possible.

 

This is a good question, though. If anyone has any information on this please jump right in.

 

Chris

[IM Egdall]

Fisrt of all, no one has yet been able to directly detect gravity waves. It is a very difficult measurement. But say some day (hopefully soon) they are detected. An optical image works by taking light rays from a point in an object and making them come together (focus) to make a point on the detector or film. Each adjacent point in the object also has to be focused to be in the corresponding adjacent position on the film to produce an image. A lens does this job. I don't know of any way to focus gravity waves to produce an image. Perhaps an after the fact post processing might help here.

[Ivan Tuzikov]

Fisrt of all, no one has yet been able to directly detect gravity waves. It is a very difficult measurement. But say some day (hopefully soon) they are detected. An optical image works by taking light rays from a point in an object and making them come together (focus) to make a point on the detector or film. Each adjacent point in the object also has to be focused to be in the corresponding adjacent position on the film to produce an image. A lens does this job. I don't know of any way to focus gravity waves to produce an image. Perhaps an after the fact post processing might help here.

 

Well, I always thought that gravity works by curving space-time. And I see no way of differentiation of a person's gravitational field (curvature of space-time) from the Earth's one.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Ivan Tuzikov