Debate on Mirror Neuron

[thinker_jeff]

I want to be clear that I have no direct research experience on "mirror neuron" although I have been interested on this concept for years. The reason for me to start this topic is because SMF challenged my opinion about mirror neuron in another topic. I owe a clear explanation to him, especially because of a quality source he provided. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2773693/?tool=pmcentrez)

 

I like to hear the argument about the concept of mirror neuron from the people in this forum, especially from neuroscientists. Here are my opinions about mirror neuron:

 

1. Mirror neurons were discovered in frontal area F5 of the macaque monkey since 1990s. These neurons responded during the execution of hand and/or mouth movements toward objects, and were activated when the monkey observed other monkey's same motor movements toward the same objects. The empirical data has been held up for more than 10 years. This is the basis of the concept of mirror neurons.

 

2. Does the mirror neurons' response represent the action understanding? It has been arguable since beginning. I have to say "I don't know" after I read the article provided by SMF.

 

3. Do human beings have mirror neurons? There are no direct data as the findings on monkeys. It seems that all of the indirect data supporting mirror neurons in humans are arguable.

 

4. The difficulty to human subjects is ethical because we do not allow putting probes into their cortex. That is correct but unfortunate to neuroscience.

 

5. Since there is no evidence to show that mirror neurons exist in non-primate animals we have reason to assume that the functionality of mirror neurons was evolved to primates. Thus, we have reason to assume that such functionality might keep in humans or extend by evolution in humans.

 

I will stop right here and listen to your arguments.

Edited April 6, 2011 by thinker_jeff

[SMF]

Jeff. This may not be a very satisfactory answer to your post. As I said before, the fact that neurophysiologists are recording the activity of neurons that indicate recognition of a specific activity in the self and also, separately, while observing it in others is straightforward evidence that they exist. The real question is- What does this mean in terms of cognition?

 

If an animal demonstrates behavior that indicates the ability to see this self/other behavioral relationship there has to be some physical evidence in the neural activity in their brain. So, finding this neural activity in primates is not surprising because they demonstrate this ability in their behavior but one might expect that this should also be demonstrated in other animals with big or agile brains. I wouldn’t be surprised if mirror neural activity also exists in elephants, cetaceans, and some parrots as well. Further, for a pretty low level intelligence, anyone who has watched a flock of chickens foraging has observed that when one pecks avidly the others will often gather looking for food. Perhaps this is a feature of social animals that depend on their group members to earn their daily living wage.

 

What I don’t know much about is the debate regarding the importance of this phenomenon among cognitive scientists (psychology and neuroscience). I just don’t see what is controversial. There are some here who might know about this and I would like to hear more. SM

 

 

[thinker_jeff]

As I said before, the fact that neurophysiologists are recording the activity of neurons that indicate recognition of a specific activity in the self and also, separately, while observing it in others is straightforward evidence that they exist. The real question is- What does this mean in terms of cognition?

The big deal of the discovery is related to action understanding unconsciously. The pioneer researchers in this field claimed that the response when the monkey observed other monkey’s motor acting toward the object is unconscious effect. Of course they had some data supported this point. If this had been held up, and if this had been discovered in humans, it should be very important to cognitive science. Such as empathy in babies and unstoppable sympathy in adults are hopefully related with this discovery.

 

If an animal demonstrates behavior that indicates the ability to see this self/other behavioral relationship there has to be some physical evidence in the neural activity in their brain. So, finding this neural activity in primates is not surprising because they demonstrate this ability in their behavior but one might expect that this should also be demonstrated in other animals with big or agile brains. I wouldn't be surprised if mirror neural activity also exists in elephants, cetaceans, and some parrots as well. Further, for a pretty low level intelligence, anyone who has watched a flock of chickens foraging has observed that when one pecks avidly the others will often gather looking for food. Perhaps this is a feature of social animals that depend on their group members to earn their daily living wage.

You can find the answer in the paper you sent to me, which is in the section “2. Action understanding can be achieved via non-mirror neuron mechanisms”.

 

What I don't know much about is the debate regarding the importance of this phenomenon among cognitive scientists (psychology and neuroscience). I just don't see what is controversial. There are some here who might know about this and I would like to hear more. SM

Like I said, the biggest controversy is if mirror neuron made action understanding unconsciously. The secondary controversy is if it existed in humans.