Aether Displacement

[mpc755]

If your Ether has mass, and is displaced by matter, then I can created a device that would enable me to move without seeming to use any fuel.

 

As matter displaces the Ether, then I would use a one way valve system on both ends of a chamber (to create a single direction that the Ether can flow through the chamber). This chamber can be expanded and contracted.

 

Aether exists where matter does not. Aether exists between the molecules of your chamber. Aether is displaced by matter. However, you can not create a single direction that the aether can flow through the chamber. In terms of your chamber and its interaction with the aether, your chamber has millions of holes in it. In your scenario, you could have a closed chamber and as you expand the chamber inside the chamber would be aetherless. This is incorrect. As you expand your chamber your chamber 'fills' with aether. A vacuum still consists of aether.

 

I would open Valve A (on the forward side of the chamber) and then expand the chamber to its maximum size. Then I would close valve A and open Valve B (on the trailing side). Finally I would compress the chamber to its minimum size.

 

As matter displaces your Ether, expanding the chamber would cause the Ether surrounding the chamber to be pushed out and the extra space in side the chamber would accommodate this displaced Ether with the Ether moving through valve A.

 

Next, after closing valve A and opening valve B, compressing the chamber would expel the Ether inside the chamber and it would exist through valve B.

 

Now, as you have stated that your Ether has mass, I would get a net movement of Ether in one direction (from valve A to valve B) pushing the device in the opposite direction.

 

This device would of course need to work in a vacuum to avoid any effects of other non Ether fluids. This device does not work off of friction and a frictionless super-fluid would still provide movement.

 

However, this does not happen in a vacuum. It has never been observed and there is no evidence for it at all. In other words, if your Ether really did exist, then we should see this effect as it uses inertia, but because there is no evidence of such an effect occurring in a vacuum, we can conclude that your Ether can not exist as the effects that it would cause do not exist.

 

But this is similar to how a swimming stroke works. You don't use friction, you use the displacement of mass backwards (water) to propel you forwards (it is action reaction of mass).

 

Because of the stiffness of water (that is the speed of motion of water is not infinite), this means that water can not always get out of the way fast enough and it is the push of water against water (because water can not take up 0 space it must push against itself - and because even frictionless super-fluids take up finite space they too must push against themselves), then you can use such a push to move through the water. So swimming is still possible in frictionless super-fluids.

 

It also means my previous arguments stand against your Ether (along with the other arguments presented in this post too).

 

It means you still don't understand the swimmer who pushes off the side of the pool and moves through the frictionless superfluid/solid forever experiences inertia. Once you understand this then maybe this conversation can move forward.

Edited April 18, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

de Broglie, the person who first understood wave-particle duality, understood the physical existence of the moving particle AND the associated wave. What de Broglie was unaware of is the existence of dark matter.

 

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory - Louis de BROGLIE'

http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

 

"When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was looking for a truly concrete physical image, valid for all particles, of the wave and particle coexistence discovered by Albert Einstein in his "Theory of light quanta". I had no doubt whatsoever about the physical reality of waves and particles."

 

"In my view, the wave is a physical one..."

 

"This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is located."

 

"I think that when this interpretation is further elaborated, extended, and eventually modified in some of its aspects, it will lead to a better understanding of the true coexistence of waves and particles about which actual Quantum mechanics only gives statistical information, often correct, but in my opinion incomplete."

 

"I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the wave, the guidance formula. It may easily be generalized to the case of an external field acting on the particle."

 

In a double slit experiment, the external field acting on the particle is the dark matter. Dark matter physically occupies three dimensional space. Dark matter is physically displaced by the moving particle. The displaced dark matter forms a wave which enters and exits both slits.

Edited April 19, 2011 by mpc755

[Edtharan]

Aether exists where matter does not. Aether exists between the molecules of your chamber. Aether is displaced by matter. However, you can not create a single direction that the aether can flow through the chamber. In terms of your chamber and its interaction with the aether, your chamber has millions of holes in it. In your scenario, you could have a closed chamber and as you expand the chamber inside the chamber would be aetherless. This is incorrect. As you expand your chamber your chamber 'fills' with aether. A vacuum still consists of aether.

What is the density of Aether? How "stiff" is it? Does it interact with itself? Does it have mass? Does it have a charge? Does it interact with the strong force? Does it interact with the Weak force? Does it obey the Pauli exclusion principal?

 

And many more questions remain unanswered by your "Aether".

 

The way you describe it, the Aether is displaced by the entire volume of the atom, including the empty space in it (as you say: "Aether exists between the molecules"). But, when molecules form a solid, they overlap, so there would not be any "between the molecules" as this would be taken up by matter already. This means that my argument still stands the matter of the chamber walls would be able to effectively block your Aether passing through.

 

Now, for my device to work, it doesn't actually need to block it 100%, even if it just slowed down the Aether it would still work, not very efficiently, but it would still work.

 

There are 2 problems with the "creation" of Aether as you explained:

 

1) You have previously stated that your Aether has mass, but as Einstein showed, mass and energy are equivalent. Thus it would take energy to create this Aether. So, where does this energy come from?

 

2) If Aether can be created like this, then doing so would increase the total amount of Aether in the universe, this should increase the pressure in or around the chamber, which could also be harnessed to produce action without apparent reaction. It would mean we would see violation of Newtons laws every time some chamber expanded or contracted. Why don't we see such obvious violations of Newtons laws?

 

Now, when molecules

It means you still don't understand the swimmer who pushes off the side of the pool and moves through the frictionless superfluid/solid forever experiences inertia. Once you understand this then maybe this conversation can move forward.

I understand it fine, but your explanations violate the physics of super-fluids, and yet you keep insisting that it behaves as a super-fluid.

 

Basically, even super-fluids don't react with an infinite speed (because it is not infinitely stiff). Because of this there must be some compression of the fluid, and this compression is stored energy. However, according to thermodynamics not all of this energy can be got back, so some of the energy that went into compressing the super-fluid is lost.

 

So, if not all the energy is returned, because some is lost (it spreads out into the bulk of the fluid), then not all the energy is returned to the swimmer, and the swimmer will slow down.

 

Sure, it might take a long time, but they will eventually slow down and stop.

 

This is because a super-fluid is not the same as a vacuum.

[mpc755]

However, according to thermodynamics not all of this energy can be got back, so some of the energy that went into compressing the super-fluid is lost.

 

'Probable Discovery Of A New, Supersolid, Phase Of Matter'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903085531.htm

 

'"When we go to a low-enough temperature, thermal energy is no longer important and this quantum-mechanical effect becomes very apparent," Chan explains.'

Edited April 21, 2011 by mpc755

[Edtharan]

'Probable Discovery Of A New, Supersolid, Phase Of Matter'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903085531.htm

 

'"When we go to a low-enough temperature, thermal energy is no longer important and this quantum-mechanical effect becomes very apparent," Chan explains.'

Did you read all the article? Because near the bottom is this (bold by me to point out the important bits):

 

Kim and Chan tested their conclusion by performing the experiment again, but this time they built a new sample cell with a barrier in the annular channel, blocking its continuous "racetrack" geometry so that superflow could not take place. "In this experiment, we observed that the decoupling rate, as measured by the change in the oscillation rate, decreased by a factor of 60," Chan reports. "The small residual effect is due to the special property of a superfluid and supersolid known as the irrotational flow effect. What is clear is that superflow is indeed interrupted by the barrier in the annular channel," Chan says.

 

In other words, this is the exact effect I stated would occur. The article supports my argument and disproves yours . Are you sure that was what you intended by linking to the article?

[mpc755]

Did you read all the article? Because near the bottom is this (bold by me to point out the important bits):

 

In other words, this is the exact effect I stated would occur. The article supports my argument and disproves yours . Are you sure that was what you intended by linking to the article?

 

'The researchers conclude that what happened inside the annular channel in their experimental sample cell is that a small fraction—roughly 1.5 percent—of the helium atoms enter into a state of zero friction and that this fraction is no longer coupled to the back-and-forth motion of the sample cell or to the rest of the solid. "This 1.5 percent is the supersolid fraction, and its behavior is identical to that found for liquid helium entering the superfluid phase, except that in liquid helium the superfluid fraction is 100 percent at absolute zero," Chan explains.'

 

'Kim and Chan tested their conclusion by performing the experiment again, but this time they built a new sample cell with a barrier in the annular channel, blocking its continuous "racetrack" geometry so that superflow could not take place. "In this experiment, we observed that the decoupling rate, as measured by the change in the oscillation rate, decreased by a factor of 60," Chan reports.'

 

The superflow being discussed is the 1.5% superflow taking place within the solid. The barrier couples the 1.5 percent of the supersolid fraction back to the rest of the solid. The barrier allows the helium bonds to take hold and the helium once again acts as a singleton. It has nothing to do with inertia of a particle moving through a frictionless superfluid/solid.

 

When discussing the aether there are no bonds within the aether itself which can be coupled and decoupled.

 

The aether is always, or always behaves as, a frictionless superfluid with properties of a solid; unless conditions allow it to condense into matter.

 

What the barrier is likely causing to occur is the loss of coherence between the supersolid and the aether.

 

Before you once again mention thermodynamics I am preemptively re-posting the following.

 

'"When we go to a low-enough temperature, thermal energy is no longer important and this quantum-mechanical effect becomes very apparent," Chan explains.'

Edited April 23, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory - Louis de BROGLIE'

http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

 

"This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is located."

 

The particle defined as a very small region of the wave means the particle enters and exits a single slit in a double slit experiment and it is the associated physical wave which enters and exits both. The associated physical wave creates wave interference upon exiting the slits. As the particle exits a single slit it is this wave interference which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated physical wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

 

de Broglie stated the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave. It doesn't matter if the particle is a photon, electron, atom, or C-60 molecule. In de Broglie's wave mechanics, the physical particle enters and exits a single slit in a double slit experiment and it is the associated physical wave which enters and exits both.

 

The wave-particle duality of wave mechanics correctly defines what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

 

In Aether Displacement, the physical wave is an aether wave.

[mpc755]

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the aether, slightly, displacing it around into a 3-dimensional swirl. Either that or the swirl occurred first and the Earth formed within it. Or it could be that they are mistaking the state of the displaced aether as a physical swirl.

 

It would be interesting to perform an experiment that spins a mesh bag full of thousands of tiny marbles in a tank of superfluid helium-3 and also to spin the superfluid helium-3 first and then place the mesh bag of marbles in.

Edited May 9, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the aether, slightly, displacing it around into a 3-dimensional swirl. Either that or the swirl occurred first and the Earth formed within it. Or it could be that they are mistaking the state of the displaced aether as a physical swirl.

 

It would be interesting to perform an experiment that spins a mesh bag full of thousands of tiny marbles in a tank of superfluid helium-3 and also to spin the superfluid helium-3 first and then place the mesh bag of marbles in.

 

Regardless if the aether actually spins or what is described as the spin is the state of displacement of the aether, this is evidence the aether is not the aether of the Michelson Morley experiment. The aether connected to, and neighboring the Earth, is in the same state, or almost the same state, throughout the Earth's rotation and orbit of the Sun.

 

The experiment is more evidence of the ether of general relativity.

 

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

 

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

 

The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the aether's state of displacement.

Edited May 9, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

Regardless if the aether actually spins or what is described as the spin is the state of displacement of the aether, this is evidence the aether is not the aether of the Michelson Morley experiment. The aether connected to, and neighboring the Earth, is in the same state, or almost the same state, throughout the Earth's rotation and orbit of the Sun.

 

The experiment is more evidence of the ether of general relativity.

 

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

 

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

 

The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the aether's state of displacement.

 

Einstein understood "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places".

 

The aether connected to and neighboring the matter determines the state of the matter. This connection determines the rate at which physical processes occur, including the rate at which an atomic clock ticks.

 

With this more complete understanding of the physics of nature, 'curved spacetime' is more correctly understood as 'displaced aether'.

[mississippichem]

Einstein understood "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places".

 

The aether connected to and neighboring the matter determines the state of the matter. This connection determines the rate at which physical processes occur, including the rate at which an atomic clock ticks.

 

With this more complete understanding of the physics of nature, 'curved spacetime' is more correctly understood as 'displaced aether'.

 

No matter how you try to rephrase it or repackage it, you still haven't overturned the Michelson-Morley experiment. You also still haven't offered a shred of quantitative evidence of the existence of "aether"; yet you seem so sure of the existence of an "aether". How?

 

By some of your definitions, this aether might not even be observable, in which case it is neither here nor there and pretty much comes down to what you want to call the vacuum. I just don't understand why people still believe in the aether; come on man this is very old, very established science. You should join us in the 21st century, its quite nice.

[mpc755]

No matter how you try to rephrase it or repackage it, you still haven't overturned the Michelson-Morley experiment. You also still haven't offered a shred of quantitative evidence of the existence of "aether"; yet you seem so sure of the existence of an "aether". How?

 

By some of your definitions, this aether might not even be observable, in which case it is neither here nor there and pretty much comes down to what you want to call the vacuum. I just don't understand why people still believe in the aether; come on man this is very old, very established science. You should join us in the 21st century, its quite nice.

 

This is what I don't understand. The following experiment is evidence of the aether. The following experiment is evidence the aether spins or what is described as the spin is the state of displacement of the aether.

 

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Is it no matter how much evidence there is of aether you are simply going to choose to insist aether does not exist? The 'swirl' associated with the aether means the aether is not the aether as was looked for in the Michelson Morley experiment. The aether is in the same state, or almost the same state, throughout the Earth's rotation on its axis and orbit of the Sun. The 'spin' is evidence the Michelson Morley experiment was incorrectly looking for an aether at rest which the Earth moved through.

 

Here is more evidence of aether.

 

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2010.16739.x/abstract

 

"We compile a sample of 38 galaxy clusters which have both X-ray and strong lensing observations, and study for each cluster the projected offset between the dominant component of baryonic matter centre (measured by X-rays) and the gravitational centre (measured by strong lensing). Among the total sample, 45 per cent clusters have offsets >10 arcsec. The >10 arcsec separations are significant, considering the arcsecond precision in the measurement of the lensing/X-ray centres. This suggests that it might be a common phenomenon in unrelaxed galaxy clusters that gravitational field is separated spatially from the dominant component of baryonic matter. It also has consequences for lensing models of unrelaxed clusters since the gas mass distribution may differ from the dark matter distribution and give perturbations to the modelling. Such offsets can be used as a statistical tool for comparison with the results of Lambda cold dark matter ( CDM) simulations and to test the modified dynamics."

 

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether.

 

The analogy is a submarine moving through the water. You are underwater. If there are lights far off in the distance between you and the submarine there will be an offset between where the submarine is and the 'gravitational center' as determined by the light which propagates through the water displaced by the submarine.

 

This again won't be enough evidence for you. Even though the notion of dark matter moving with matter is debunked by this offset you are still unable to understand what the offset is is the galaxy clusters moving with respect to the state of the aether. Why? Why is it that no matter how much evidence of aether there is you will simply refuse to understand?

 

Here is more.

 

'Dark Halo Around Our Galaxy Looks Like Squished Beach Ball'

http://www.space.com/7746-dark-halo-galaxy-squished-beach-ball.html

 

"Dark matter seems to shroud the remaining visible matter in giant spheres called haloes."

 

The Milky Way's halo is displaced aether.

 

"But the new study found that the Milky Way's halo isn't exactly spherical, but squished. In fact, its beach-ball form is flattened in a surprising direction perpendicular to the galaxy's visible, pancake-shaped spiral disk."

 

All of the aether displaced by the Milky Way matter exerts force towards the matter. The force exerted towards the matter by the aether displaced perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy's spiral disk offset. It is the aether which is displaced outward relative to the plane of the spiral disk which exerts force towards the center of the galaxy. This forces the matter closer together which results in the displaced aether looking like a squished beach ball.

 

Not only is the above evidence of aether, aether displacement explains why the aether is in the shape of a squished beach ball.

 

And more.

 

'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter

'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html

 

"Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark mater, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water."

 

The 'pond' consists of aether. The moving 'particles' are the galaxy clusters. The 'ripple' is a gravitational wave. The 'ripple' is an aether displacement wave.

 

If the galaxy clusters were moving with dark matter there would not be a ripple.

 

All of the above is evidence of the existence of aether.

 

Now, it is your turn to respond with there is no evidence of aether.

Edited May 12, 2011 by mpc755

[mississippichem]

All of the above is evidence of the existence of aether.

You also still haven't offered a shred of quantitative evidence of the existence of "aether".

 

Stop hand waving and writing pages of what is essentially an English essay. Post some LaTeX, use standard physics terminology and the like if you want to convince anybody. I don't believe you.

 

Now, it is your turn to respond with there is no evidence of aether.

There is no evidence of aether.

 

You clearly have no ability or desire to understand the Michelson-Morley experiment; this will severely limit the scope of further debate.

Edited May 12, 2011 by mississippichem

[mpc755]

You also still haven't offered a shred of quantitative evidence of the existence of "aether".

 

Stop hand waving and writing pages of what is essentially an English essay. Post some LaTeX, use standard physics terminology and the like if you want to convince anybody. I don't believe you.

 

 

There is no evidence of aether.

 

You clearly have no ability or desire to understand the Michelson-Morley experiment; this will severely limit the scope of further debate.

 

You clearly have no ability or desire to understand what the results of the following experiment means.

 

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Either the spin physically exists in the aether or what is described as spin is the state of displacement of the aether.

[mississippichem]

You clearly have no ability or desire to understand what the results of the following experiment means.

 

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Either the spin physically exists in the aether or what is described as spin is the state of displacement of the aether.

 

What part of quantitative don't you understand?

[mpc755]

What part of quantitative don't you understand?

 

What part of the following experiment debunks the aether looked for in the Michelson Morley experiment don't you understand?

 

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

And found.

 

Either the spin physically exists in the aether or what is described as spin is the state of displacement of the aether. Either way this is evidence the aether is in the same state, or almost the same state, where it is located with respect to the Earth throughout the Earth's rotation about its axis and orbit of the Sun. The near-null result of the Michelson Morley experiment is expected based on the above experiment.

Edited May 12, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

'"The space-time around Earth appears to be distorted just as general relativity predicts," says Stanford University physicist Francis Everitt, principal investigator of the Gravity Probe B mission.'

 

The GP-B experiment is evidence the state of the aether is determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places. The displacement of the aether by matter is the cause which conditions its state.

 

This means a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment, the moving particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated aether displacement wave which enters and exits both slits. As the aether wave exits both slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit, the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated aether wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

[mpc755]

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory - Louis de BROGLIE'

http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

 

"When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was looking for a truly concrete physical image, valid for all particles, of the wave and particle coexistence discovered by Albert Einstein in his "Theory of light quanta". I had no doubt whatsoever about the physical reality of waves and particles."

 

"In my view, the wave is a physical one..."

 

"This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite

natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is located."

 

"I think that when this interpretation is further elaborated, extended, and eventually modified in some of its aspects, it will lead to a better understanding of the true coexistence of waves and

particles about which actual Quantum mechanics only gives statistical information, often correct, but in my opinion incomplete."

 

"I called this relation, which determines the particle's motion in the wave, the guidance formula. It may easily be generalized to the case of an external field acting on the particle."

 

In aether displacement, the external field acting on the particle is the aether.

 

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment, the moving particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated aether displacement wave which enters and exits both slits. As the aether wave exits both slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit, the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference it encounters. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated aether wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

Edited May 18, 2011 by mpc755

[Edtharan]

You clearly have no ability or desire to understand what the results of the following experiment means.

 

"NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment"

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/

 

"Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check."

 

Either the spin physically exists in the aether or what is described as spin is the state of displacement of the aether.

So one one hand you are trying to say that the Aether does not interact with matter at all (as in the replies of my posts), and on the other hand you are trying to say that it doers interact with matter.

 

Sorry, you can't have both. Either it doesn't interact with matter and therefore matter objects won't experience friction, or it interacts with matter and thus causes friction.

 

You have categorically stated that the Aether does not casue friction in past posts. So this experiement either has no bearing on your proposal and so is meaningless to it, or it disproves your proposal (because it means that your "frictionless" aether is not frictionless), and thus is not something you want to use to try and support your proposal.

[mpc755]

So one one hand you are trying to say that the Aether does not interact with matter at all (as in the replies of my posts), and on the other hand you are trying to say that it doers interact with matter.

 

Sorry, you can't have both. Either it doesn't interact with matter and therefore matter objects won't experience friction, or it interacts with matter and thus causes friction.

 

You have categorically stated that the Aether does not casue friction in past posts. So this experiement either has no bearing on your proposal and so is meaningless to it, or it disproves your proposal (because it means that your "frictionless" aether is not frictionless), and thus is not something you want to use to try and support your proposal.

We have already had this conversation. Until you are capable of understanding frictionless does not mean no interaction, please stop responding.

 

'Frictionless supersolid a step closer'

http://www.physorg.com/news185201084.html

 

"Superfluidity and superconductivity cause particles to move without friction. Koos Gubbels investigated under what conditions such particles keep moving endlessly without losing energy, like a swimmer who takes one mighty stroke and then keeps gliding forever along the swimming pool."

 

More correct analogy is the swimmer takes one might push off the side of the pool and glides forever.

 

There is no loss of energy in the interaction of the swimmer and the superfluid with properties of a solid.

 

'On the super-fluid property of the relativistic physical vacuum medium and the inertial motion of particles'

http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0701/0701155.pdf

 

"Abstract: The similarity between the energy spectra of relativistic particles and that of quasi-particles in super-conductivity BCS theory makes us conjecture that the relativistic physical vacuum medium as the ground state of the background field is a super fluid medium, and the rest mass of a relativistic particle is like the energy gap of a quasi-particle. This conjecture is strongly supported by the results of our following investigation: a particle moving through the vacuum medium at a speed less than the speed of light in vacuum, though interacting with the vacuum medium, never feels friction force and thus undergoes a frictionless and inertial motion."

 

Whatever energy is used to move the particle through the 'super fluid medium' must be continuously returned to the particle or the particle would not be able to maintain momentum.

 

That does not mean there is no interaction between the particle and the frictionless superfluid. That does not mean the particle does not require energy to displace the frictionless superfluid. What it means is whatever energy the particle requires to displace the frictionless superfluid the frictionless superfluid medium applies the same amount of energy to the particle as it 'displaces back'. The interaction of the particle and the frictionless superfluid medium allows the particle to move forever through the frictionless superfluid medium. Not that there is no interaction between the particle and the frictionless superfluid medium. Just that there is no loss of energy in the interaction.

 

That's what frictionless means when discussing a frictionless superfluid medium. No loss of energy in its interaction with matter.

 

You are mistaking friction with force. Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Aether displaced by matter physically exerts force towards the matter. Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter is gravity. The force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter is frictionless. That doesn't mean there is no force exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter. Just that the interaction of matter and aether is frictionless; not force-less.

Edited May 19, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

How is the test at the bottom of this post not testable?

 

All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. Following the explanation is an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement. Following this is an explanation of what will be derived for the offset between the galaxy clusters matter and their gravitational center which will provide evidence the galaxy clusters are moving with respect to the state of the aether.

 

In the image on the right here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment

When the downconverted photon creates the photon pair, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism.

 

There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0.

 

Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4.

 

Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0.

 

The following experiment will provide evidence of aether displacement:

 

Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0.

[swansont]

That does not mean there is no interaction between the particle and the frictionless superfluid. That does not mean the particle does not require energy to displace the frictionless superfluid. What it means is whatever energy the particle requires to displace the frictionless superfluid the frictionless superfluid medium applies the same amount of energy to the particle as it 'displaces back'. The interaction of the particle and the frictionless superfluid medium allows the particle to move forever through the frictionless superfluid medium. Not that there is no interaction between the particle and the frictionless superfluid medium. Just that there is no loss of energy in the interaction.

 

That's what frictionless means when discussing a frictionless superfluid medium. No loss of energy in its interaction with matter.

 

You have no energy transfer between the earth and the aether, so how can it twist, as you claim in accordance with the gravity probe B experiment? The aether must be stationary overall, since we cannot impart kinetic energy to it, only moving out of the way as we pass by, and returning when we have gone. So the "aether flow" due to the earth rotation should vary with latitude, should it not? And with time of year, since the earth's speed varies, as it's in an elliptical orbit.

[mpc755]

You have no energy transfer between the earth and the aether

No energy transfer is not quite accurate. Take for example a swimmer who pushes off the side of a pool and glides forever through an infinitely long and infinitely wide pool which consists of superfluid which has properties of a solid (H3). The swimmer continually displaces different regions of the H3. Different regions of the H3 continually 'displace back' towards the swimmer. The swimmer requires energy (the push off the side of the pool) to start the process. The swimmer does have an associate aether displacement wave. The aether wave does not dissipate energy. There is no loss of energy in the interaction of the swimmer and the H3.

 

, so how can it twist, as you claim in accordance with the gravity probe B experiment?

You place a mesh bag of millions of tiny marbles into the infinitely large pool of H3 and spin the bag. The state of the H3 is determined by its connections with the marbles and the state of the H3 in neighboring regions. The state of which is its state of displacement. If the bag of marbles was the Earth then are you sure the H3, which is a superfluid with properties of a solid, does not twist? At the very least what is described as the spin in the GP-B experiment could be the direction of the force associated with the state of displacement of the aether.

 

The aether must be stationary overall, since we cannot impart kinetic energy to it, only moving out of the way as we pass by, and returning when we have gone. So the "aether flow" due to the earth rotation should vary with latitude, should it not?

The gravity on the Earth does vary with latitude. However, it is not due to the 'aether flow'. The Earth bulges at the equator due to its spin. This means if you are standing at the equator you are further from the center of the Earth than when you are at the poles and as such there is more force exerted towards you at the poles. It's the same analogy as I went through before with the below the surface, sea level, mountain top, space shuttle,..., atomic clocks.

 

And with time of year, since the earth's speed varies, as it's in an elliptical orbit.

The faster an object moves with respect to the state of the aether the more aether the object displaces the more force the aether exerts towards and throughout the object. So yes, if the earth's speed varies enough then the gravitational effects, the force exerted towards the Earth by aether displaced by the Earth, should be able to be detected.

Edited May 25, 2011 by mpc755

[mpc755]

You have no energy transfer between the earth and the aether, so how can it twist, as you claim in accordance with the gravity probe B experiment? The aether must be stationary overall, since we cannot impart kinetic energy to it, only moving out of the way as we pass by, and returning when we have gone. So the "aether flow" due to the earth rotation should vary with latitude, should it not? And with time of year, since the earth's speed varies, as it's in an elliptical orbit.

 

Your turn to answer a question. The GP-B experiment detected the spin of spacetime. If space is an empty void how does it spin? What is it about placing the label 'spacetime' on an empty void which allows an empty void to have the physical property of spin? Same for calling it a 'field'. If the 'field' of 'spacetime' exists in an empty void what is the magical property of 'field' which allows an empty void to physically spin? And if your answer is space spins then what is space? Are you discussing the mathematical construct of three dimensional space? You don't really believe a mathematical construct in and of itself can spin, do you? So, if you state the field of spacetime physically spins and field and spacetime are labels placed on an empty void then how does an empty void physically spin?

 

"According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable" - Albert Einstein

[swansont]

Your turn to answer a question.

 

Nope.

 

1. The correctness of GR has absolutely no bearing on the correctness of any aether theory; if GR were shown to be wrong, it would not promote any other theory to being correct. You do not get to shift the burden of proof.

 

2. "If space is an empty void how does it spin?" is a strawman argument. GR does not claim space is an empty void, and using logical fallacies is against the rules.

 

 

It is YOUR claim that there is an aether, and that it has certain physical properties. It is incumbent upon YOU to formulate a model, based upon those properties, to show how it behaves. You have been invited to share this model several times, but thus far all you have offered is analogies and hand-waving.