mpc755 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Nope. 1. The correctness of GR has absolutely no bearing on the correctness of any aether theory; "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable" - Albert Einstein Einstein disagrees. 2. "If space is an empty void how does it spin?" is a strawman argument. GR does not claim space is an empty void, and using logical fallacies is against the rules. It is YOUR claim that there is an aether, and that it has certain physical properties. It is incumbent upon YOU to formulate a model, based upon those properties, to show how it behaves. You have been invited to share this model several times, but thus far all you have offered is analogies and hand-waving. What part of the test at the bottom of this post is a test of aether displacement are you unable to understand? What is it with the moderators who refuse to understand the test at the bottom of this post is a test of aether displacement? How does this work? You insist I propose an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement, which I do. And then you ignore the experiment. Are you insisting my experiment can not possibly be correct because it is different than the mainstream understanding of what occurs in similar experiments? Isn't that the whole point of asking me to provide an experiment is to provide evidence of my theory? That is exactly what I have done. AETHER DISPLACEMENT IS TESTABLE. All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. Following the explanation is an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement. Following this is an explanation of what will be derived for the offset between the galaxy clusters matter and their gravitational center which will provide evidence the galaxy clusters are moving with respect to the state of the aether. In the image on the right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment When the downconverted photon creates the photon pair, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism. There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0. Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4. Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0. The following experiment will provide evidence of aether displacement: Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0. Edited May 25, 2011 by mpc755 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable" - Albert Einstein Einstein disagrees. Einstein's dead, and there's no indiction that he meant the same thing by aether as you do. Arguing science by selective quotation is a NERF™ sword in a real swordfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississippichem Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable" - Albert Einstein Einstein disagrees. Argument from authority. Also a logical fallacy. Einstein was really smart but was wrong about lots of things. In fact, Neils Bohr dominated Einstein in a debate about quantum mechanics and probabilistic outcomes. So just because Einstein said it, does not make it law. What part of the test at the bottom of this post is a test of aether displacement are you unable to understand? What is it with the moderators who refuse to understand the test at the bottom of this post is a test of aether displacement? How does this work? You insist I propose an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement, which I do. And then you ignore the experiment. Are you insisting my experiment can not possibly be correct because it is different than the mainstream understanding of what occurs in similar experiments? Isn't that the whole point of asking me to provide an experiment is to provide evidence of my theory? That is exactly what I have done. You explain things using non-standard physics terminology, AND YOU REFUSE TO USE MATHEMATICS. You clearly don't even understand the most basic of Newtonian mechanics. How are you supposed to be a credible source? You have been prompted to offer up a mathematical treatment for your theory, at least four times that I can count. You just simply refuse. You are dodging the question because you don't have an answer, do you? You made up the A=mc^2 nonsense on the spot and we called you on it. It's gonna take a lot more math than that. AETHER DISPLACEMENT IS TESTABLE. It is, the Michaelson-Morley experiment took care of that. For some reason you seem to claim that that experiment leads to the opposite result. You are just making that up too. Aren't you? In fact, I would be willing to bet that don't even understand the standard treatment or theory of that experiment. If you did, you would see how obviously off base you are. All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. Following the explanation is an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement. Following this is an explanation of what will be derived for the offset between the galaxy clusters matter and their gravitational center which will provide evidence the galaxy clusters are moving with respect to the state of the aether. In the image on the right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment When the downconverted photon creates the photon pair, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism. There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0. Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4. Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0. The following experiment will provide evidence of aether displacement: Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0. ...yeah the rest of this post doesn't merit much of a response as it is mostly just hand-waiving mixed with a little word salad. Learn some physics, post some LaTex, or bug off. Your theory falls on deaf ears hear. We are the scientific mainstream; and yes we are involved in the conspiracy to repress your work. Have you ever even seen a physics journal article? They don't even have that many words! They are mostly equations, diagrams, and tables. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? WHY HAVE YOU NOT POSTED ANY EQUATIONS? I'M WRITING THIS IN LARGE FONT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT BLIND! POST SOME MATH OR NOBODY WILL CARE ABOUT WHAT NONSENSE YOU HAVE TO HAND WAVE ABOUT. SHOW US THE MATH!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The following experiment will provide evidence of aether displacement: Has someone done it, and what is the prediction of accepted theory? If it's the same, then this doesn't test aether theory. ————— Einstein came up with relativity under a basic premise of c being constant in inertial frames and gravity being indistinguishable from any other acceleration and produced a mathematical framework upon which the ideas could be tested. That's how we know that the Hafele-Keating experiment, and gravity probe B, and hundreds of other tests agree with the theory. It wasn't, and isn't a matter of merely claiming "I can explain that!" There was a set of specific predictions that could be used to falsify or confirm the theory. Without that, you don't have science. The best you've done is give a few analogies. Repeatedly quoting the same three or four articles in response to criticism doesn't come close to being evidence, and it misses the point that your analogies imply certain results that are not observed. Saying that the aether acts like a displaced fluid doesn't jibe with it accounting for gravity, because you haven't shown that fluid pressure should behave that way. You have to take your physical properties and create a mathematical model that predicts the behaviors you claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpc755 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Has someone done it No. , and what is the prediction of accepted theory? The information must be erased in order for the interference patterns at D0 to be discerned. If it's the same, then this doesn't test aether theory. My test will provide evidence it is the exact opposite of what is presently [mis]understood to occur. My experiment will provide evidence the two interference patterns are being created at D0 regardless of what else occurs in the experiment. My experiment allows for the interference patterns at D0 to be discerned without anything being 'erased'. My experiment fundamentally changes physics. Edited May 25, 2011 by mpc755 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Report back when you've done the experiment and are ready to submit the article to a journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpc755 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Report back when you've done the experiment and are ready to submit the article to a journal. No. -3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooeypoo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 No. Then we have nothing to talk about, do we? We work with science, and you need to provide testable evidence. ! Moderator Note Thread closed. Don't post any more threads about this until you're ready to cooperate. We have rules here, they're quite fairly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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