The New Race to Space.

[J'Dona]

We must secure our future here on Earth before we consider a future in the stars.

What if some unforseen cataclysm (a comet, asteroid, climate change, supervolcano, total thermonulcear war, etc.) threatens to wipe out life on Earth as we know it and the entire human race is all here?

 

The only way to really secure the future of the human race is to go into space. There's nothing like a backup against planet-wide catastrophes than another planet. Best not to carry all your eggs in one basket.

[Sayonara]

Or, to put it another way, the point of migrating off Earth is because we can't secure a future here.

[Sorcerer]

That depends if you consider a future to be 3 billion years.

[Sayonara]

That depends if you consider a future to be 3 billion years.

Do you mean "that depends if you consider 3 billion years to be a future"? Subtle difference I know, but it's there.

 

As has been mentioned a few times, we don't have that long. Period.

[Ophiolite]

We must secure our future here on Earth before we consider a future in the stars.

They are not mutually exclusive. We have to attempt both. Getting the balance right is the tricky part and it isn't right at present .

 

Consider this simplistic example.

Annual global expenditure on makeup $18 billion

Annual expenditure on pet food (Europe and US) $17 billion

Annual global expenditure on perfumes $15 billion

Annual expenditure on ice cream (Europe) $11 billion

Total - $51 billion

[source:"]http://www.worldwatch.org/press/news/2004/01/06/#a1]

 

Cost of manned expedition to Mars $30 billion

[source: The Case for Mars by Robert Zubrin ISBN 0-684-82757-3]

 

 

And this eloquent declaration

 

We choose to go to the moon! We chose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win....

This is in some measures an act of faith and vision, for we do not know what benefits await us .... But space is there and we are going to climb it.

 

John Fitzgerald Kennedy 1962

[SubJunk]

You can't say someone is wasting resources by doing that, it's completely a matter of opinion.

Jack Johnson said "it's all relative"

If you think it's a waste of time, that's fine, don't do it. But if I had the money to do it, I would. Just to do it. People don't need to justify doing things like that, it would be fun for most people on the planet (and we don't need to do a poll for that one I'm sure)

[sepultallica]

you know what i cant condone? a multi billion dollar space program in the us when we still have problems on earth. terrorism threatens our very way of life. blobal warming threatens our comfort and existance. hunger, povertyy, disease.

 

i definately dont want to see us abandoning the space race. if there is potential for cost effective space travel and colonization then by all means we must explore the shit out it. but we cant do this when we have major problems on earth. we cant criple ourselves in the process.

[science∞REB]

Extremely. You want an objective argument? As I said, its a waste of resources, they could take a holiday here on earth. They could use a simulator and the experience would be exactly the same, except for 0 G, if they want 0 G they could go on that plane that simulates it with freefall.... if they want be a pilot, fly a plane.

 

 

 

 

but this "waste" is helping every1:let the rich people spend their money and let us benefit

[SolarFlare]

A big congrats to th X-prize winners but where is NASA now?

 

 

I'm all for outer space but we must also be realistic

will we be going to Mars soon ?

 

It seems we have lots of work to do with, jobs, improving our manufacturing sector amd rising debts before we will be able to back this kind of space vision

 

 

 

Recall the recent events

 

The US House of Representatives panel will cut the money given to fund space, environment and science programmes for next year

 

Just $372m was provided out of the $910m Mr Bush wanted for initial preparations for manned missions to the Moon and Mars.

 

 

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10495&start=0

 

http://www.thespacesite.com/community/index.php?showtopic=818

 

http://www.space.com/news/nasa_budget_040720.html

 

http://www.marsnews.com/archives/2004/07/20/bushs_manned_mars_mission_funds_cut_by_538_mln_in_house_bill.html

 

 

 

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15147&highlight=

 

http://hnn.us/articles/3435.html

[Ophiolite]

You can't say someone is wasting resources by doing that' date=' it's completely a matter of opinion.

Jack Johnson said "it's all relative"

If you think it's a waste of time, that's fine, don't do it. But if I had the money to do it, I would. Just to do it. People don't need to justify doing things like that, it would be fun for most people on the planet (and we don't need to do a poll for that one I'm sure)[/quote']Interesting ethical position you take: no justification required for a vanishingly small proportion of humanity to use up a significant quantity of finite resources for their own satisfaction. Sounds like 'might is right', survival of the fittest with no constraint.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying you are right or wrong. That would be only an opinion anyway, it is just intriguing to see someone take such an unashamedly selfish position.

[Aardvark]

Interesting ethical position you take: no justification required for a vanishingly small proportion of humanity to use up a significant quantity of finite resources for their own satisfaction. Sounds like 'might is right'' date=' survival of the fittest with no constraint.

[/quote']

 

 

If people had always taken a purely utilitarian view of how to use resources there would be no Sistine Chapel, no Taj Mahal, no Effiel tower. And yet these things enrich all our lives.

 

Also why does anyone need to make a justification for using there own resouces how they see fit? If someone earns a lot in its up to them to decide how to spend it, whether in Casinos, on charity work or in expanding our species bounds and making the world a more magical place.

 

If we wait to solve all our problems on this planet before looking up then we will never get our feet of the ground, there will always be a social problem requiring attention.

[Ophiolite]

If we wait to solve all our problems on this planet before looking up then we will never get our feet of the ground' date=' there will always be a social problem requiring attention.[/quote']If you care to read any of my earlier posts you will see that I am arguing passionately for a move to space.

If you have read and understood the post you are commenting on you will see that I am simply stating that SubJunk has taken a clear selfish position. I have not said this is good, bad or indifferent, or whether or not I agree with it.

And by the way those are not 'his or her' resources, they are 'our' resources and 'our' includes our descendants.

If you detect a little animosity here, then translate it in your mind to excessive enthusiasm to communicate.

[tecoyah]

If we bother to take a look at the long term effects of space tourism/exploration (yes, I do consider them the same thing) we are likely to come to a simple conclusion. We are going to become a space faring race.....one way or another. We just happen to be at the "Beginning" of what will probably be remembered as the Golden Age of exploration. I honestly believe there will come a time, perhaps 100 yrs. from now, when humans are routinely travelling to outposts or colonies on other worlds. This challenge has to start somewhere/sometime, and I see no reason it should not be now.

The initial investments will be relatively small when compared to the payoff....at least our grandchildren will likely think so.

Now it looks as though the Space Elevator will become a reality as well, which will speed up the proccess incredibly. Unfortunately this is still decades away, which makes commercial activity that much more important. Whoever makes the first Space Elevator, will have an anormous advantage over everyone who follows, and will in essence....Own Space.

[Sayonara]

I already made the inevitable step argument and apparently it wasn't "good enough".

[tecoyah]

It was good enough for me....just wanted to add my 2Cents

[Sayonara]

If it helps I agree with you entirely.

[Sorcerer]

Too much StarTrek.

[Sayonara]

That's a fairly lame response tbh.

[Aardvark]

If you care to read any of my earlier posts you will see that I am arguing passionately for a move to space.

 

If you detect a little animosity here' date=' then translate it in your mind to excessive enthusiasm to communicate.[/quote']

 

My post wasn't a commentary on your wish to move to space, but on the ethics of the necessary resource allocation. A matter you had raised as being of interest to you.

 

A discussion on resource control and allocation in this matter seems interesting to me so i replied.

 

To test your enthusiasm to communicate perhaps you could elaborate on your idea of resource ownership. You seem to be operating from a view point of strictly limited resources. A matter of a cake of fixed size which can only be divided so many ways. I don't agree. There may be limited quantities of such materials as oil and natural minerals, but intellectual resources can be unlimited and overcome such Malthusian constraints.

 

Any comments?

[Sorcerer]

That's a fairly lame response tbh.

 

Because you are a treky?

[Sayonara]

That made no sense.

[Sorcerer]

But you are a Trekky?

[tecoyah]

Trekker....is the accurate term I believe.

[Sorcerer]

Perhaps if you analyse your scifi interests you will see the true motive behind your desire for man to pursue space travel research.

[atinymonkey]

That space travel is cool, space pilots get all the girls and your bitter about it all?