Possible way to make sodium

[Djordje]

Okay, I know there is a thread "NO, you can't make sodium" pinned on this forum, but I had this idea and I just think it might work.

So here's what we do:

Make the highest concentration possible of [latex]NaCl[/latex] in [latex]H_2O[/latex]. Then we add petroleum, as much as we used water in the first mixture. Petroleum is insoluble in water, it's boiling point is 150 °C and it should only be used to preserve the [latex]Na[/latex] from reacting once separated from [latex]NaCl[/latex]. Then we start heating the mixture while electrolysis takes place. Must be careful not to exceed 150 °C as petroleum will evaporate. So as [latex]Cl2[/latex] is formed and goes away, [latex]Na[/latex] will react with water all the way to a point where there is not enough water to react - when enough water is evaporated, there should remain some [latex]Na[/latex] after each reaction with water. [latex]NaOH[/latex] is at the same time electrolised and after all water is evaporated, [latex]Na[/latex] should remain protected in petroleum.

Just wanted to hear if this is possible.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Djordje

[hypervalent_iodine]

So, did you actually read the 'NO, you can't make sodium' thread? Because you should.

[Djordje]

So, did you actually read the 'NO, you can't make sodium' thread? Because you should.

 

Nope

[hypervalent_iodine]

Would never have picked it.

[mississippichem]

I suspect your electrolysis might come to a grinding halt whenever enough water has evaporated and you are just left with a lot of heavy, non-conductive oil.

 

Sodium ions will not want to migrate to the oil layer either. Any sodium ion that is reduced to Na metal in the aqueous layer probably won't live long enough to migrate to the oil layer.

 

Sorry to be a "parade-rainer".

[zoteman94]

I think if all the water reacted with sodium you will be left with anhydrous NaOH, and unless you melt it, it doesn't conduct electricity...

[zoteman94]

By the way, Wikipedia says that you can make elemental sodium with NaOH*H2O if you keep the temperature higher than 100 degrees Celsius, maybe some graphite electrodes and mineral oil work for this? (preventing oxidation of Na)

[RMX]

The best way is to use lye and magnesium powder but it is dangerous so it should not be attempted by an inexperienced chemist

[elementcollector1]

The best way is to use lye and magnesium powder but it is dangerous so it should not be attempted by an inexperienced chemist

 

Actually for pure sodium it's probably best to use electrolysis. The magnesium method leaves the sodium horribly impure.

Then again, potassium seems just fine...

https://sites.google.com/site/energeticscribble/preparation-of-metallic-potassium

 

Again, plenty about this metal is dangerous, so precautions are needed.

[Suxamethonium]

From what I can remember, any normal electrolysis of sodium salt solutions yields production of hydroxide due to water being more easily reduced than the sodium ion.

 

The exception is using a mercury cathode like in the old mercury based chlor-alkali process which yielded a sodium amalgam. Perhaps this is a possible, less violent route to the element- but it is definately not without hazard- theres also the problem of seperating mercury from the amalgam without contaminating everything around you- or worse causing a violent reaction with the sodium throwing mercury droplets and vapour everywhere.

 

My advice is to buy sodium, or leave it be- of itself it is not likely to turn your world upside down, but trying to make it in large amounts probably will.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Suxamethonium

[RMX]

Oh yes I understand that electrolysis forms purer sodium, I meant best for an individual, not an industry.

[elementcollector1]

Oh yes I understand that electrolysis forms purer sodium, I meant best for an individual, not an industry.

 

Actually, electrolysis can be done by the hobbyist.

(not sure if YouTube allowed) Gives the basic setup.

Connect the carbon electrodes to a 12V car battery, and this should run fairly fast, and leave you with a much purer product.

I've tried both, and I can affirm that electrolysis is the better way to go unless you want to try something like NurdRage did

It's pure because the magnesium never mixes with the potassium metal formed, but requires some odd materials.

[Suxamethonium]

<br />Actually, electrolysis can be done by the hobbyist.<br /><a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xS9t-KMpc' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.youtube.c...h?v=i9xS9t-KMpc</a> (not sure if YouTube allowed) Gives the basic setup.<br />Connect the carbon electrodes to a 12V car battery, and this should run fairly fast, and leave you with a much purer product.<br />I've tried both, and I can affirm that electrolysis is the better way to go unless you want to try something like NurdRage did<br /><a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHgyn-wsxFw' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gHgyn-wsxFw</a><br />It's pure because the magnesium never mixes with the potassium metal formed, but requires some odd materials.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Yes... Electrolysis of lead and zinc is fine for a hobbyist- the salts have relatively low melting points, and the metals that are produced are much less reactive than sodium. They also sink- where as sodium floats. If you used THAT set up to produce sodium I can see 3 imediate issues:

 

The sodium produced is at an odd 750+ degrees celcius, floating to the top such that it is exposed, not only to atmospheric oxygen, but to hot chlorine and finally you have to somehow melt a decent amount of sodium chloride or similar salt (which, even with certain salts to lower the melting point, is still more than 700 degrees celcius).

 

As for the video on potassium, that looks like a useful method- and probably much more achievable for the hobbyist than electrolysis.