Is the U S shirking it’s duty to democracy ?

[Greatest I am]

"should the US be a global police force?"

 

What makes you think that that is not exactly what we have?

 

Regards

DL

[Athena]

Democracy is all about civil interference, as was Star Trek. If people didn't interact with each other, they would have absolute autonomy and maintaining absolute autonomy requires absolute power. You can't dictate autonomy with authoritarian repression. Democracy resists authoritarian repression, so it checks/balances autonomy with critical dialogue.

 

Now this is a debatable subject. I am not sure there are firm sides of right and wrong here. I have to use an analogy to talk about this. On a ship the captain has authority and is responsible for everyone, and the ship, on a totally different level from everyone else on the ship. The captain of the ship is like a state governor or our president. No one should come to this position without adequate preparation. The people in such positions must know all that needs to be known and also be good with people so they can lead everyone. The average person just is not that well informed, and is not desiring to be that well informed. Those who are both well informed and good with people are rare. To not submit to their leadership is just foolish. A smart person does not take a job and immediate act like s/he owns the business. I repeatedly learned the hard way, there are good reasons for things being other than I would have them. I always assumed responsibility for everything, from day one, and made a fool of myself, because I didn't know how much I didn't know.

 

We need authority and we need to submit to authority. However, we must never give up our sense of responsibility and judgment. Unfortunately, too many people do that. They vote in the popular person and then do nothing but may be complain when the elected person is not doing right. When we believe something is wrong or that things can be done better, it is our responsibility to learn all we can about that. Then it is our responsibility to try to convince others that a change needs to be made. Because of the complexity of our institutions today, nothing can be changed as easily as in the past. It can take many years to bring about the desired change. I can mean writing those in the seats of power many times, and working with the media to raise public awareness. I can mean testifying at public hearings, and pulling in others to do the same, and even organizing political activist groups such as the Tea Party, or one to oppose it. Our responsibility as citizens, surely does not stop with voting. So we submit to authority, and we take responsibility, and take action when we think a change is necessary.

 

The short of it is, our elected representatives don't always vote as we think they should, but ask us to trust them, when they make difficult decisions. That is when we should ask them why they voted differently than we thought they should. Now if this a big problem for you, you should prepare yourself to run for the elected position, at the next election. You take the seat of authority, by convincing everyone you are the best suited. That is how democracy works, even in the direct democracy of ancient Athens. Democracy is not the complete equality because that would be complete chaos and nothing would get done. Democracy includes as many people as possible, and autocracy eliminates as many people as possible, from the decision making process.

 

In a large democracy such as ours, democracy is several different levels of decision making, and at the top a system of checks and balance, between the power of the people (representatives), the executive branch, and the juridical branch. The people man the ship, the president is the captain, and the juridical branch using the constitutions to be sure we stay on course. We have shifted the power from the local level to the federal level and this is both a good and bad thing. This is an area of discussion we should get into. It is not just about form, but also the area of responsibility and authority. Who should have the power to determine what my children learn in school? Who should have the power to send my son to war and make me pay for it? Should these be local decisions or federal decisions? What is the difference between private and public decisions? Should be credit record be private of public information? A democracy must decide the areas of authority and the difference between private and public decisions.

 

"should the US be a global police force?"

 

What makes you think that that is not exactly what we have?

 

Regards

DL

 

That is exactly what we have, and this was the intent of the Military Industrial Complex established by past President Eisenhower. It is also what Rome did, and what Germany tried to do, and what Britain did with colonies around the world. The Prussians came up with the best system for the New World Order and the US adopted it.

 

Hum, by best, I mean the power to achieve the goal of military defense of economic interest, not necessarily the best thing to do in human terms. As we slash domestic budgets and cut into Social Security, it is joke to pretend this very expensive military is force defending the economic interest of the common man, woman and child.

 

I love this, the best thing to do in human terms is covered by religion, and the mythology of democracy. To the matter of the subject, without the mythology of democracy, the US can not defend it any where in the world. Until the citizens of the US are educated in the mythology of democracy, I do not think they should be going to war in the name of democracy.

[lemur]

We need authority and we need to submit to authority. However, we must never give up our sense of responsibility and judgment.

Authority of reason is inalienable in every sentient being. Once people learn the difference between true and false statements, they gain the ability to reason about what is true and what is false. To submit to authority arbitrarily out of fear of questioning it is a foundation for authoritarianism. When one judges authority to be corrupt, it is the responsibility of the individual to resist/disobey/etc. When you aren't critically resisting authority, you are enabling arbitrary power. You can cooperate/submit to authority, but you check and balance it with your own or other authorities. Unidirectional flow of power is not democratic.

 

I love this, the best thing to do in human terms is covered by religion, and the mythology of democracy. To the matter of the subject, without the mythology of democracy, the US can not defend it any where in the world. Until the citizens of the US are educated in the mythology of democracy, I do not think they should be going to war in the name of democracy.

Setting conditions on when people can go to war is authoritarian, isn't it? In democracy, you don't really have the right to dictate whether or not someone else can go to war. All you can do it petition them with reason about how to pursue the matter in a way that you think would maximize good. The expression that war is politics by other means can also be reversed that politics is war by other means. Violence in war could be minimized to the extent that everyone involved would make a good faith effort to resolve the conflicts at hand in a more diplomatic way. Drawing lines on a map and bullying people for crossing them is not so diplomatic but then again maybe crossing lines to exploit the people and resources within them without respect for others living there is also not diplomatic. The problem is how are people supposed to learn to interact diplomatically and democratically if they use territorial borders to separate from and dominate each other?

 

 

[Athena]

I fully explained the responsible steps to take if you disagree with those in authority. Anyone who takes these steps all the way, and becomes the person elected to office, will need followers who trust him/her enough to submit to his/her authority. Of course no one should follow a leader who can not be trusted.

 

God, we know we can not trust the bankers and others in the financial industry, so who is preparing to take the places of these corrupt people? Where is the education in good moral judgment that these people need? We need teachers for this. Where are they? One doesn't become a paid teacher, without a college degree, so how are the colleges preparing the teachers and professors? Who is responsible for all this being done?

 

I am saying we should not enter wars claiming we are defending democracy, when we are not defending democracy through the education of our own citizens, and through our own actions to take care of business at home. I am not Christian, but some of the things Jesus is suppose to have said are pretty cool. We should not be trying to remove the splinter from someone else's eye, before removing the plank from our own eye. Our democracy is more threaten from within than from without, and if the price of oil continues to climb, the rioting may be on our own streets.

 

Reagan lied to us, and now we are realizing the results his lie, and he is still listed as among the top 10 presidents of the US. I wish we could replay history, re elect President Carter instead of Reagan, continue our efforts to conserve and to develop alternative energy, and therefore, not have armed the mid east, and not have armed Bin Laden, and not corrupt oil countries with oil money and fights for power. At least Carter's course of action might lead to an informed and responsible public, instead of a mass that still believes a Republican can get us cheap oil. How can corruption be prevented when people still believe there is a Santa Claus who can fulfill all their wants, and what is happening in the mid east has nothing to do with them and their desire for unlimited cheap oil?

Edited April 23, 2011 by Athena