Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Hopefully you will experience the good ghosts and not the bad ghosts . Also , I don't know why this thread is in religion , when it could just as much be at home in theoretical physics .
mississippichem Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Hopefully you will experience the good ghosts and not the bad ghosts . Also , I don't know why this thread is in religion , when it could just as much be at home in theoretical physics . Because like religion, belief in ghosts or spirits requires faith and is not evidence based.
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 Belief in chemistry , physics and math requires faith and a lot of what is physics , chemistry and math has no evidence , it is theory . Does this make them religions ? Does this make belief in ghost's and spirits a science ?
JillSwift Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Belief in chemistry , physics and math requires faith and a lot of what is physics , chemistry and math has no evidence , it is theory . Does this make them religions ? Does this make belief in ghost's and spirits a science ? Sorry, but you're using the wrong definition of "theory". In science, a theory is something that explains facts. Thus, a theory can not be a theory unless there is evidence to explain. No faith is required for science, as it can all be tested.
A Tripolation Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Belief in chemistry , physics and math requires faith and a lot of what is physics , chemistry and math has no evidence , it is theory . Does this make them religions ? Does this make belief in ghost's and spirits a science ? I guess you have faith that your computer will continue abiding by the laws that govern its circuitry? Funny how it doesn't just up and decide to adhere to a new set of laws.
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 JillSwift , you say , In science, a theory is something that explains facts. Thus, a theory can not be a theory unless there is evidence to explain. A theory does not explain facts . A fact explains theories . A theory can be a theory with no evidence to support it . I can have a theory that my cup of tea will stay warm forever and it doesn't matter if i have evidence on one side or the other . My theory is that my cup of tea will stay warm forever . The fact is that it won't . Some supporting evidence might include Newton's law of cooling to show my theory that my cup of tea will stay warm forever is wrong . A Tripolation , As for the subject of guessing , I don't have confidence in computers . They are an accident waiting to happen .
JillSwift Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 JillSwift , you say , In science, a theory is something that explains facts. Thus, a theory can not be a theory unless there is evidence to explain. A theory does not explain facts . A fact explains theories . A theory can be a theory with no evidence to support it . I can have a theory that my cup of tea will stay warm forever and it doesn't matter if i have evidence on one side or the other . My theory is that my cup of tea will stay warm forever . The fact is that it won't . Some supporting evidence might include Newton's law of cooling to show my theory that my cup of tea will stay warm forever is wrong . A Tripolation , As for the subject of guessing , I don't have confidence in computers . They are an accident waiting to happen . I'm sorry again, but you can't just change definitions to fit your needs. the·o·ry –noun, plural -ries. 1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. 2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. 3. Mathematics: a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory. 4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory. 5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles. 6. contemplation or speculation. 7. guess or conjecture. As you can see, it has many definitions. In science, the first definition is the one used.
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 JillSwift , This is what you supplied to our conversation , as a definition of a Theory , I don't disagree , I am not changing definitions to fit my needs , 1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. It is how these words are interpreted that matters . A proposition is a proposal which is proposed to fit a set of circumstances . It is itself a theory . Unproven !
Klaynos Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 ! Moderator Note Posts moved here from:http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/56557-do-you-believe-in-ghosts-spirits/page__view__getnewpost__fromsearch__1
A Tripolation Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 A Tripolation , As for the subject of guessing , I don't have confidence in computers . They are an accident waiting to happen . But you can bet your life on the fact that the classical binary logic that runs them will always stay the same. As will the classical electrodynamics that is used in the electrical components. I am not changing definitions to fit my needs , Yes. You are.
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 Definitions are there . I understand them . The future of binary logic and electrodynamics will make many changes but the past can't be changed .
Phi for All Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 JillSwift , This is what you supplied to our conversation , as a definition of a Theory , I don't disagree , I am not changing definitions to fit my needs , 1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. It is how these words are interpreted that matters . A proposition is a proposal which is proposed to fit a set of circumstances . It is itself a theory . Unproven ! You sound like someone who doesn't really know science but is prepared to define it without such knowledge. Scientific theory is the height of the scientific method, a way in which we can be sure that each piece of knowledge we put together has been thoroughly tested and discussed. Interpretation doesn't come into play as much as you may think, and that's one of the reasons the scientific method is so trusted. It's not open to interpretation the way you might think, so there is no faith necessary. We don't have to believe because we have tons of evidence which allow us to make predictions. When those predictions keep coming true, when each new fact supports what has gone before, we start to use the word theory.
swansont Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 I am not changing definitions to fit my needs , When you claim that "A theory can be a theory with no evidence to support it ." then yes, you are changing the definition. If there is no evidence it cannot be a theory, using the science definition. It would be hypothesis or conjecture at best, or a WAG at worst. 1
John Cuthber Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 At the risk of being labelled as deeply politically incorrect. http://xkcd.com/54/ seems to sum it up for me. 1
A Tripolation Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 The future of binary logic and electrodynamics will make many changes but the past can't be changed . Binary logic will not change. Quantum Electrodynamics will make changes with relevance to quantum computing, but that is why I put classical in front of it. Your computer operated on classical mechanics, and always will. Besides, that statement supports your original idea in no way whatsoever.
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Scientific theory is not scientific fact . That is why it is called theory . A proposition is an unproven theory which may or may not result in being proven ! Swansont , My computer is a piece of Shit , the binary logic that it uses is a mess of idea's that people trying to learn it can't understand , and you know that . My original idea didn't start in this thread , moderators have stopped me continuing my original conversation with the assistance of , have a guess who ! I have a theory that I will shortly have a nice cup of tea . I have no foundation supporting evidence for that , possibly a thought , but I can't prove it ! Edited April 18, 2011 by hal_2011
swansont Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Scientific theory is not scientific fact . That is why it is called theory . I don't see where anyone has claimed differently. Swansont , My computer is a piece of Shit , the binary logic that it uses is a mess of idea's that people trying to learn it can't understand , and you know that . My original idea didn't start in this thread , moderators have stopped me continuing my original conversation with the assistance of , have a guess who ! I have a theory that I will shortly have a nice cup of tea . I have no foundation supporting evidence for that , possibly a thought , but I can't prove it ! It was A Tripolation who mentioned your computer. Why loose your venom on me? From the point of view of science, you don't have a theory about your tea. 1
Hal. Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Swansont , apologies , typo! For those who don't know what's going on , we are arguing over the meaning of the word theory ! Read the thread sometime ! I say , theory is unproven , others say theory is fact . I also say propositions are unproven . Edited April 18, 2011 by hal_2011
StringJunky Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Swansont , apologies , typo! For those who don't know what's going on , we are arguing over the meaning of the word theory ! Read the thread sometime ! I say , theory is unproven , others say theory is fact . I also say propositions are unproven . Theory means what the scientists here say it means...it doesn't matter what you think...it's convention* It's the modern equivalent of the word Law that it replaces because history shows that no idea explains everything which that idea is supposed to encompass: The essential property of a Theory is that given x and y we'll get z... some new phenomenon always comes up in time which that Law/Theory can't explain or predict the data that arises from an experiment its supposed to be valid for and the scientific community is mindful of this so they don't recognise Laws or Facts any more. They use a thing called 'confidence levels' or probability and if it exceeds 95% they will, tentatively and sceptically, accept into the body of scientific knowledge as mirroring Reality. In science, Theory now represents the highest level of confidence Convention is a very important concept in science that you need to absorb because when a scientist uses particular words or phrases it conjures up in the minds of other scientists exactly the same thought that s/he intended. Hand waving and saying this is not so will quickly show you the face of impatience if you do not acknowledge and respect this simple idea. Science doesn't care about semantics only that there is a consensus as to what a word conveys or represents. In actual fact, they often use common words now that have been stripped of any classical meaning, so, arguing the meaning of words in a science forum is pointless really. . Edited April 18, 2011 by StringJunky 1
A Tripolation Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Swansont , My computer is a piece of Shit , the binary logic that it uses is a mess of idea's that people trying to learn it can't understand , and you know that . Your computer works. Otherwise you would not be using it. And how does that statement help your original point at all?
Hal. Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 StringJunky , I'll give you an example , If I stand in the middle of the traffic lane on the road at 3 P.M. in the afternoon , scientists can say all they like about a 99% confidence level or a 99% probability that a car will crash into me within 1 hour . That does not mean it will happen . The standards of proof should be at 100% . It has been mathmatically shown to me why 99.9999................ % would be acceptable as being 100% . Nobody cares what I think , StringJunky , but this is what I think , below 100% is unproven theory , 100% is fact .
SMF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Hal_2011 I am having a problem with what you are saying because I don't think anyone is saying that a theory can be true like a mathematical proof. In fact, I don't believe science asserts any proofs. Who or what are you objecting to? SM
SMF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Hal_2011, you say: My posts are clear ! I say that your posts are not clear to me. SM
ajb Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 In theoretical physics a theory will be used synonymously with mathematical model. The level of experimental support for the theory will vary from well supported to pretty much non-existent. I guess there is faith in the sense that one must have faith in thescientific principle. Or maybe that is more philosophy that faith as the scientific principle has served us so well. 1
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