Chickenpox Parties

[Sorcerer]

Ok, so then you would have a lower chance of dying of chickenpox while infected as a child. But you said you said "few", I think 40% is a bit more than few.

[Ophiolite]

Ok, so then you would have a lower chance of dying of chickenpox while infected as a child. But you said you said "few", I think 40% is a bit more than few.

 

Oh, Sorcerer. You have committed the unforgivable: you have me agreeing with Youdadonapogos!

40% of 100 approx (the number of deaths of children under ten in 1995) is approximately forty, which in a population of around forty million under tens (very approximately) is one in one million, which is to me 'few'.

[Sorcerer]

He was meaning few when compared to how many adults die of it.

 

Otherwise I'd agree with that too.

 

Oh thats out of 4 million cases anually (before the vaccine), so 40/4000000 is also few.

 

But tell me do you agree with him that its better to send your children to chickenpox parties than to vaccinate them. Do you agree that the vaccine is more risky because it causes the disease in some cases, while he wants all children to suffer the disease anyway.

[Ophiolite]

But tell me do you agree with him that its better to send your children to chickenpox parties than to vaccinate them. Do you agree that the vaccine is more risky because it causes the disease in some cases' date=' while he wants all children to suffer the disease anyway.[/quote']

 

I sensed that people may have been posting at cross purposes and were in fact agreeing. Thus I can and do agree with what I think both of you mean.

 

1. It is proper to give children chickenpox vaccine. It would be inappropriate and arguably irresponsible to circulate them around chickenpox parties.

 

2. Before the development of the vaccine it was proper to send children to such parties. It was arguably unethical not to.

 

I would be interested to know if I have correctly interpreted what was being said.

[ydoaPs]

He was meaning few when compared to how many adults die of it.

 

Otherwise I'd agree with that too.

 

Oh thats out of 4 million cases anually (before the vaccine)' date=' so 40/4000000 is also few.

 

But tell me do you agree with him that its better to send your children to chickenpox parties than to vaccinate them. Do you agree that the vaccine is more risky because it causes the disease in some cases, while he wants all children to suffer the disease anyway.[/quote']

 

I never said I advocate it, I just said I don't find it unethical.

[Ophiolite]

I never said I advocate it, I just said I don't find it unethical.

 

So, let me understand what you are saying. Either you feel that the risks of exposure to chickenpox at parties is the same or lower as the risks of taking the vaccine, or you do not consider it unethical to expose children to a higher level of risk. Which is it?

[ydoaPs]

the risk is the same and it is unethical.

[Sorcerer]

I sensed that people may have been posting at cross purposes and were in fact agreeing. Thus I can and do agree with what I think both of you mean.

 

1. It is proper to give children chickenpox vaccine. It would be inappropriate and arguably irresponsible to circulate them around chickenpox parties.

 

2. Before the development of the vaccine it was proper to send children to such parties. It was arguably unethical not to.

 

I would be interested to know if I have correctly interpreted what was being said.

 

1. Yes

 

2. No, they can get it naturally if they get it at all. I made the remark, "yes as long as its during the school term" in jest.

[Sorcerer]

This

 

the risk is the same and it is unethical.

 

contradicts

 

I never said I advocate it, I just said I don't find it unethical.

 

Which is it? Lets remove the double negative, do you think its ethical to expose children to chicken pox?

 

Also can you back up the claim that the risk is the same with some evidence?

 

I think you will find the proportion of vaccinated people dying from chickenpox is far lower (if not non-existent) than the proportion of non-vaccinated people dying of chickenpox.

 

I think you may be succumming to the urban myth that vaccination can cause all sorts of diseases. One wildly inflammatory unjustified hypothesis that is widely accepted by parents because it was "on TV" is that vaccinations can cause autism, I suppose you beleive this too?

[YT2095]

the Vaccine is much safer in that it provides better protection against Shingles in later life.

 

both are ethical in my opinion, BUT the vaccine is "more Ethical", so I`de be inclined to go with that if it were an Option, the Chicken pox parties would be a second choice

[ydoaPs]

This

 

the risk is the same and it is unethical.

 

 

 

contradicts

 

 

I never said I advocate it' date=' I just said I don't find it unethical.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it was a typo.

 

i say both are ethical, but vaccines cost more than the parties. in that respect, it may be a better choice for people that are in the lower income bracket

[tecoyah]

I have only one question concerning this issue:

 

Is there evidence available that those immunized will retain protection into adulthood?

If not it seems to me we are simply trading the childhood version, and a few itching scars.....for the adult (albeit different ) form , and shingles related damage, up to and including death.

 

By the way...my kids had a chickenpox party last year....four scars and three days of low fever on the worst.

[klanger]

I can give you an example of chicken pox caught by an adult and why it can be dangerous.

 

First the blisters come, nothing too bad with that, leave them alone dont pop them and you wont scar, dont pick the scabs and they wont scar.

 

Within 24 hours there are cramping type sensations in your lower rib area, this is your kidneys starting to fail, but you merely show the signs of a water works infection.

 

By the 36 hour point your chest has tightened and breathing becomes laboured.

 

By the 48 hour point you are panting as you simply can not take in more air than that, your lungs are flooding your kidneys are in renal failure and your liver is no longer functioning properly, oxygen rich blood is no longer getting effectively to your brain. Your heart is taking a beating as it races at over 160bpm. This is a rare but fatal side kick of getting chicken pox as an adult. Most people dont survive it.

 

I have never heard of a vaccine against chicken pox, it certainly isnt something that is offered here in this country, so when I found out there was chicken pox going around I made sure my children got infected by playing with the infected children. I felt that this was most definately the better option than hoping they didnt get it as adults.

 

I never caught chicken pox as a child, I got it at the age of 25, the blisters showed on Tue 14th Feb 1989, by Fri 17th Feb I was in big trouble.

 

I had been to the doctors in those three days a total of 6 times, and was constantly fobbed off and told to behave as children get it all the time its no big deal.

 

On the Friday morning I was rushed to the local German hospital (my ex husband was in the army at the time). I was x-rayed and then rushed immediately up to intensive care, the x-ray showed next to no lung left. They had to restart my heart in the elevator as I was going up to the ICU.

 

I was placed on a ventilator, had various drips and feeds going into my body. Having little in the way of lungs the ventilator pumped up my body like a balloon, my husband didnt recognise me. At 5.30 that evening they pronounced my baby dead (32 weeks gestation) and told my family that I would NOT make it through the night.

 

In their history they had seen a few cases of what I had and none of them had survived. The doctors were amased the next day to find me still alive, from there they played it one day at a time. They warned my family that even if I did survive this illness I may not be the same due to the lack of oxygen to my brain, they didnt know what level of brain damage I may have gotten.

 

Three weeks later I came out of the semi coma I was in and my breathing tube was removed. My muscles even in three short weeks had wasted away and I had to learn to walk again. My speech was slow, words no longer came easily. My long term memory was shot and my short term memory wasnt much better.

 

It took me a long time to get over that illness, finding new ways into existing memories, possibly using different parts of my brain I dont know, I just know it was a long painful haul back to normalicy. The most basic of jokes would go right over my head.

 

I already had one child at the time of this illness he was 2, I then went on to have two more children after this illness.

 

I had chicken pox with viral pneumonia a rare but fatal combination. Do I think that chicken pox parties are ethically wrong? NO!

[Coral Rhedd]

Klanger, sorry to hear about your dreadful experience, but you have me curious. My daughter caught chickenpox at age 5 two weeks after she broke her arm and then 2 weeks following she had pneumonia. I know how she broke her arm. I know how she caught the chickenpox. But could the pneumonia be related to the chicken pox or was it just a coincidence?

[klanger]

Hey there Coral

 

The incubation period for chicken pox is three weeks, this is before any blisters appear. So when your daughter broke her arm the virus was already working within her system, and her white blood cells would already be on the rise.

 

At best guess I would say she caught the pneumonia because her little body had gone through two pretty tough incidents of mending and was naturally run down. The chicken pox wont have caused the pneumonia, and the pneumonia coming two weeks later isnt part of chicken pox in the way it was for me.

 

In my condition the chicken pox and pneumonia were attacking at the same time because they were viciously linked.

 

You are perfectly right though to ask that question, and the more people are aware of how quickly a simply childhood illness such as chicken pox can turn deadly the better.

 

In the same respect though, people shouldnt automatically presume it will be deadly, but if they are informed, then they will be able to act much faster and possibly save the life of the person or even child that may be infected with both viruses. I gave a very acurate run down of the symptoms as they displayed themselves initially in my previous post.

 

Before I caught my illness doctors were pretty much ignorant to the potential for it to go drastically wrong, it is such a rare condition and few doctors have ever seen it, something they maybe touched on briefly in their years as med students but have never actually dealt with.

 

I am pleased to say though, that has changed . A good doctor will now ask a pregnant woman if she is immune to both german measles and chicken pox. If she isnt immune to chicken pox and its time for the rounds of that illness again (chicken pox seem to hit every 6-7 years) she will be offered an abortion if she has been in direct contact with it.

 

That said, we all need to be vigilent to the risks, as I said doctors on the whole wont have had first hand experience of it at its worst, so may not automatically tell you of the risks when you go to them.

 

I have endeavoured by word of mouth to inform people of this potential, so now more people know of it. With the internet however I have been able to reach other countries. Its now up to each and every one of you to pass the word along, dont scare people... this is not a common ailment, but to be informed so that they can act, if other symptoms present, within 24 hours of onset of the blisters.

 

If for any strange reason, any of you out there have a doctor that hasnt heard of this, please feel free to quote my case. I know I made the medical history books of the Celle krankenhause. I dont remember a hospital number for myself but here are the details I do know if any doctor wishes to look into it.

 

Name:....Katrina Pearson DOB.......7th Jan 1964

Hospitalisation..........17th Feb 1989 - 17th March 1989

Hospital.....Celle Krankenhause

Place.......Celle

Country....West Germany

 

At the time I was the wife of a British soldier serving in Hohne, we were living in Bergen Belson.

[Coral Rhedd]

Thanks klanger for your precise reply.

[In My Memory]

What do you think about "chickenpox parties"? I don't recall if they're urban legend or something that actually takes place' date=' but do you think it's ethical?

 

For those of you who haven't heard of them, they are a gathering where a child that is infected with chickenpox (and is contagious) is allowed to play with uninfected children. Parents bring their young children to these parties in order to infect them while they're young. Sounds like a good idea, but is it ethical to do that?[/quote']

If there is an alternative to chickenpox parties, such as vaccination, then I strongly recommend against taking your kids to the parties.

 

I dont mean to freak out, but I causing your children avoidable suffering in light of painless vaccination borders on child abuse. Although they may be in good faith, chickenpox parties dont fit into a traditional schemes of "ethical".

[BenSon]

This is slightly of topic on the ethics of chickenpox but is it possible to have a natural immunity to it? Neither me or my brother and sister have caught it having been exposed to it several times when i was a kid though. My mother and her sister never got it and neither did my mothers father? Is it possiblethere is some kind of genetic immunity happening here?

 

~Scott

[jdurg]

Yes, it is possible to have a natural immunity to chickenpox, and I know that they can test for it these days. I know this because I myself was tested for natural immunity. I have never had chickenpox and I turn 25 later this year. Growing up, however, I had many opportunities to catch it. When I came down with Type I Diabetes at the age of 1.5, my sister began to show signs of chickepox a few days after I went into the hospital. I didn't catch it. Twice, when I was sleeping over at my best friend's house as a kid, his sister came down with chicken pox a few days afterwards. (And yes, you can get chickepox more than once and it won't be shingles. In fact, I've never even heard of shingles affecting children. I've only heard that shingles is what is very likely to happen if you get chickenpox as an adult). I also slept over another friend's house as a child and he came down with chickenpox while I was sleeping over. Still, I never caught it.

 

So when I turned 18 and was getting ready to go out to college I had my physical done. I told my doctor that I had never gotten chickenpox before and was wondering if I was naturally immune. They did the bloodwork and it came back negative. I had no chickenpox antibodies in my system. So the doctor immediately ordered a chickenpox vaccine and he me come in a few weeks later to get it. They then ran immunity tests again about a month later and it showed that I had the immunity. So the next time you see your doctor, ask if they could test you for chickenpox immunity. If you aren't immune, ask for the vaccine since getting shingles is apparently NOT a fun thing.

[BenSon]

Yeah for sure. Luckily i dont have to go to the doctor very often but i'll try to remember next time I go. Seeing as you had similar circumstances to me and didn't have a natural immunity maybe i don't either? My dad got shingles trust me i know it sucks

 

~Scott

[klanger]

I know nothing about the vaccine, as when I had the chicken pox and my kids got it it was pre any vaccine here in England back in 89 - 93. If this is a tried and tested method with no nasty side effects then yeah that has got to be the way to go.

 

My interpretation of a vaccine though is for it to contain the virus in a very small dose so that your wite blood cells attack it and then you have your immunity.

 

So with that in mind I am not convinced that seeing as you have now had chicken pox via a vaccine, that you will somehow manage to escape from shingles too. By the way not everyone that gets chicken pox get the shingles later, and I dont think getting shingles is connected solely to catching chicken pox as an adult, I believe that once you have had the chicken pox regardless of age a little of the virus remains within you, and that if your immune system becomes low at some point in adult life that is when it can comes back to bite you. It is usually in the form of a patch of dry rough skin that looks like heat rash, but just in one place normally, with an intense itch that hurts if you scratch it.

 

As I said I am not toatlly sure as to how vaccines work, so if anyone knows for sure I would be interested to know.

[Mokele]

My interpretation of a vaccine though is for it to contain the virus in a very small dose so that your wite blood cells attack it and then you have your immunity.

 

Bingo. Plus, the virus/bacteria is usually weakened or killed by some other means, often radiation.

 

Mokele

[Nevermore]

A bit off topic:

I had the chicken pox 7 times, and never seemed to produce antibodies for it. My immune system is perfectly healthy, and on several occasions has fought off infections so tough that the doctor was impressed.

[klanger]

Not saying that you havent had the chicken pox 7 times here Nevermore, but were they properly diagnosed by a doctor? Reason I ask is this.

 

I was friends with a lady who had two little boys, one of whom she felt had had chicken pox several times. It turned out that what she thought were chicken pox were actually an alergic reaction to something he occassionally ate. He came up in cigerette size red blotches that were slightly raised. Chicken pox comes up in cigerette size blisters, there is no red to them initially before they show, just bam a blister.

 

Also chicken pox generally cycles every 6-7 years, unless you move country and are just ahead of the strain each time I have worked out that you would have to be somewhere in the region of 42 - 49 years old.

 

That said, I do know the doctor told me one time that yes it is possible to get it more than once, but that that is a very rare thing.

[Nevermore]

They were diagnosed by a doctor each time.