Voting

[ydoaPs]

ok, here is a true story:

 

the was a car accident. i was the only one on the scene that was quallified to do first aid. they didn't speak english and i didn't speak spanish. i had to use my girlfriend as my personal translator. if i had been by myself, those people may have died.

[AL]

ok, here is a true story:

 

the was a car accident. i was the only one on the scene that was quallified to do first aid. they didn't speak english and i didn't speak spanish. i had to use my girlfriend as my personal translator. if i had been by myself, those people may have died.

In this particular scenario, it would've been to their benefit to speak English, but how does this justify a general requirement that they speak English? Those people could've been tourists as opposed to immigrants. Would you then argue that tourists should be required to speak English? Those people could've been deaf-mutes and you would've had the same problem.

 

I'm not sure what principle you're using to justify requiring the English language. What is, in principle, wrong with people that don't speak English? You don't like it? There are lots of things I don't like, but that hardly justifies banning it.

[ydoaPs]

1.) why the hell would tourists come to Indiana?

 

2.) if i moved to china and made no attempt to learn the language, i may be put to death. which is worse, deprotation or death? if you don't have enough respect to learn the language of the country that you move to, then you needn't move there.

[Pangloss]

There already exist *plenty* of reasons for someone to learn English, even where I live in South Florida.

 

I do a lot of work in areas that are commonly inhabited by recent immigrants, and so I meet people on a routine basis who don't speak English. If there's one thing I can tell you that is universally true about every single one of them, is that they regret not being able to speak English, and are trying to change that as fast as they possibly can. If you think it's hard for people down here to get work if they're not bilingual, try being unilingual in Spanish.

 

So really the question is why you would want to *force* them to learn English. What problem do you think this kind of requirement will solve, when enforcement will surely be less than 100%, leaving you right back where we are right now?

[AL]

1.) why the hell would tourists come to Indiana?

This is beside the point. The point is that the particular scenario you described to justify requring English could easily occur to a tourist, a deaf-mute, someone with a cleft palate, or an inarticulate socially awkward teenager in any part of the country and the result would be the same. If you mandate that a poor 3rd world immigrant be made to acquire the resources to speak English, why not mandate that every deaf-mute buy one of those voice-boxes that Stephen Hawking uses?

 

2.) if i moved to china and made no attempt to learn the language, i may be put to death. which is worse, deprotation or death?

How does China requiring you to speak the language justify the U.S. doing the same? I think most Americans would agree that China's system of government and respect for human rights is not something to be admired or mimicked.

 

if you don't have enough respect to learn the language of the country that you move to, then you needn't move there.

Well I'm certainly glad most of our lawmakers would not entertain the idea of passing laws over perceived disprespect.

[ydoaPs]

Should Braille be removed from elevators and ATMs?

 

side question: Why do drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? I really hope blind people aren't driving.

 

 

edit:al, i get the feeling that you are a person lacking in patriotism. you wouldn't be the least bit upset about people spitting in the face of our country?

[AL]

side question: Why do drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? I really hope blind people aren't driving.

Sorry, noted and corrected. Deaf people don't use braille.

 

edit:al, i get the feeling that you are a person lacking in patriotism. you wouldn't be the least bit upset about people spitting in the face of our country?

Where the heck did that come from?

[ydoaPs]

Well I'm certainly glad most of our lawmakers would not entertain the idea of passing laws over perceived disprespect.

 

there

 

edit: if you want to argue, lets do it tommarrow. i am going to bed.

[AL]

there

 

edit: if you want to argue' date=' lets do it tommarrow. i am going to bed.[/quote']

OK I'm done period. I don't know how this went from questioning the principle behind mandatory English for immigrants to a McCarthy-style witch hunt over my (perceived lack of) patriotism, but it's scary.

[john5746]

that is complete spam. why should someone in America have to learn Spanish to get a job? to be a scientist' date=' you need a backround in science, not english(duh), but why would you need to learn another language if you live in the USA and want a job?

[/quote']

 

Spam to an idiot perhaps. Being bilingual means you can work with international companies(duh), not to mention people living here that speak a different language.

 

I don't think speaking English should be a requirement to vote, but there should be no special effort to accomodate foreign languages, i.e people should vote in English.

[DoorNumber1]

Yourdad, please get a life. Or at least a sense of perspective. Hell, a basic knowledge of linguistics concerning the critical periods for learning languages will do.

 

Truth is, picking up a language as an adult is, to put it scienficially, hella-hard to do. After a month in China I learned a lot of random words and phrases, but all I remember how to do is greet people, express the thought "I am..." (useful for saying you're an American or a student or anything like that), and say the word thank you. And the word for bathroom. That was a very useful one to know. If I stayed longer, with a bit of formal study, I don't doubt that I would become functional and rather quickly. But it would be broken and hideous to a native speaker of Mandarin. Put me around a group of English speakers there and I'll always revert to my native tongue. It was SUCH a relief to hear fluent English being spoken by anybody after a while. And it's hard, even when you're trying, to find your way around when none of the signs are in your native tongue.

 

But I'm not stupid. Quite the opposite. And guess what? Most of those spanish immigrants aren't either. One of my best friends parents were biochemists. Oh, but that was in Nicaragua. Because they couldn't speak English fluently, they were assumed to be dumb so they had to settle for low paying janitorial jobs in Miami. Naturally the second generation picked up english flawlessly as kids do and are now assimilated and adding a lot to our country. I met her here at Harvard, and I'd bet money she's 20 times smarter than you are, yourdad. And that's the point of America. Amazing people can come here, do their thing, and everyone benefits.

 

As a final note, more to the point considering the implied ideologies behind your "lacking in patriotism" statement, ask yourself honestly if you'd react the same to a cute girl speaking broken English but fluent French? Or how about Italian? Or German? You don't have to tell me the answer, but you should really think about it. And hard.

[5614]

NO

 

because: if they dont understand the national language then they will not know what they are voting for. if someone told them who to vote for, thats unfair and isnt how a democratic system is meant to work, if someone translated it for them, they may make the translation biased.

basically, unless the person themselves can listen directly to what each part stands for and then make up their OWN mind, then they shouldnt be allowed to vote.

[Sayonara]

I was at the library and saw a poster. It was talking about how it ismportant to vote, BUT it was in Spanish. For those of you that don't know, I live in America. I found that poster disturbing. I don't think you have any right to vote if you can't understand the national language. What do you guys think?

I think that as usual you are drawing conclusions that weren't implied.

[atinymonkey]

side question: Why do drive-up ATMs have Braille on them? I really hope blind people aren't driving.

 

Because some people cannot clearly see object that are close to them and require the braille keypads to help them out. It's easier than having customer keep two sets of glasses, one for driving and one for reading, just to use a cash machine.

 

edit:al, i get the feeling that you are a person lacking in patriotism. you wouldn't be the least bit upset about people spitting in the face of our country?

 

You can call all the people you like un-American. It doesn't change the fact that any citizen should have the right to vote, regardless of social situation, stigmata or skin colour. As you yourself are an immigrant, you should feel an affinity with the immigrants. America, quite famously, is a melting pot of cultures and as such is built specifically to be tolerant to all immigrants and there language. To suggest America should become uniform goes against the very grain the forefathers set out when building America.

 

As my own aside, I'll mention you cannot be nationalistic about the English language unless you actually are English. If you want Americans to all speak the same language, I suggest you go invent one.

[ydoaPs]

As a final note, more to the point considering the implied ideologies behind your "lacking in patriotism" statement, ask yourself honestly if you'd react the same to a cute girl speaking broken English but fluent French? Or how about Italian? Or German? You don't have to tell me the answer, but you should really think about it. And hard.

 

well, i wouldn't care because they ARE speaking english.

 

I think that as usual you are drawing conclusions that weren't implied.

care to elaborate?

Because some people cannot clearly see object that are close to them and require the braille keypads to help them out. It's easier than having customer keep two sets of glasses' date=' one for driving and one for reading, just to use a cash machine.

 

 

 

You can call all the people you like un-American. It doesn't change the fact that any citizen should have the right to vote, regardless of social situation, stigmata or skin colour. As you yourself are an immigrant, you should feel an affinity with the immigrants. America, quite famously, is a melting pot of cultures and as such is built specifically to be tolerant to all immigrants and there language. To suggest America should become uniform goes against the very grain the forefathers set out when building America.

 

As my own aside, I'll mention you cannot be nationalistic about the English language unless you actually [i']are[/i] English. If you want Americans to all speak the same language, I suggest you go invent one.

1.) i am native american

2.) i never said i had a problem with immigrants. if you want to move here AND CAN SPEAK CONVERSATIONAL ENGLISH, then go ahead.

[YT2095]

any individual of voting age that has permanent LEGAL residence in a country and whos Govornment has a direct influence over the descisions that affect that persons life, should be able to vote. regardless of what language they speak.

 

can you Converse in Sign Language? it`s certainly NOT "English", and so using your argument, Deaf/Mute people should be denied a vote???

 

 

I think NOT!

[Sayonara]

care to elaborate?

The fact that a sign appears in Spanish does not imply that people reading it should be incapable of understanding any other language.

[Phi for All]

edit:al, i get the feeling that you are a person lacking in patriotism. you wouldn't be the least bit upset about people spitting in the face of our country?

You know, I never mind a spirited debate over issues, but time and time again, you, yourdadonapogos, seem to make your attacks personal, and that is bad for the whole SFN community. It's people like you that make our guests refrain from joining, fearing attacks by trolls who can't stick to subject and draw inane conclusions based on the flimsiest of evidence.

 

I'm getting really sick of your righteous crap. If you have something worthwhile to add (for a change), then post it, otherwise please refrain from spewing garbage.

 

Just as a scientific experiment, try looking at AL's posts and their high quality throughout the forum and compare them to yours.

[YT2095]

why single out "AL" any one of the majority of us would suffice to prove your point

[Phi for All]

why single out "AL" any one of the majority of us would suffice to prove your point

True, but AL was singled out previously and personally by yourdadonapogos, who attacked his patriotism for standing up for the right of others to vote.

 

Not that AL needs defending by the likes of me, but it's easy to see if you check out AL's past posts that he is a thoughtful member of this community, like many, but unfortunately not like all.

[blike]

If they are a LEGAL resident, then yes, they should without question have the right to vote.

[YT2095]

I don't think you have any right to vote if you can't understand the national language. What do you guys think?

I think you`re 100% right!

 

and the same should apply to those that don`t have a degree in Electronics engineering, how DARE THEY own and use a radio or television!

 

or these people that take medications for illness without a PhD!

 

 

Damn their socks!

[ydoaPs]

It's people like you that make our guests refrain from joining' date=' fearing attacks by trolls who can't stick to subject and draw inane conclusions based on the flimsiest of evidence.

 

I'm getting really sick of your righteous crap. If you have something worthwhile to add (for a change), then post it, otherwise please refrain from spewing garbage.

 

Just as a scientific experiment, try looking at AL's posts and their high quality throughout the forum and compare them to yours.[/quote']

 

and you are complaining about me trolling?

[drz]

the was a car accident. i was the only one on the scene that was quallified to do first aid. they didn't speak english and i didn't speak spanish. i had to use my girlfriend as my personal translator. if i had been by myself, those people may have died.

 

My mother is a paramedic. We live in one of the fastest expanding areas of mexican and spanish populations in america. She's dealt with similiar situations on countless occasions. And sure, while communicating verbally can help in such matters, to a well trained medic, it is not needed.

 

I mean, suppose your story was exactly the same, but with an american who was knocked unconcious. How would you care for him? I guess without a spirit medium to dive into the dream realm, you couldn't, and he would die.

[Phi for All]

and you are complaining about me trolling?

YES!