How hot is an electron?

[36grit]

How hot is an electron?

How about an atom's nucleous?

do photons expand when they get hot?

are quarks hot? and are they considered elementry particles?

are there subquantum particles or virtual time and distance?

is heat an electromagnetic wave similar to light?

If a light wave is made up of photons, then what is heat wave made of?

[ajb]

How hot is an electron?

How about an atom's nucleous?

do photons expand when they get hot?

 

By "hot" you mean have a well-defined temperature?

 

If so then the temperature of a single particle is not defined. Temperature is really the measure of the average kinetic energy of a large collection of particles.

 

are quarks hot?

 

Again, the temperature is not defined for a single particle. Maybe you are asking about the energy needed to create free quarks or the temperature of a quark-gluon plasma?

 

and are they considered elementry particles?

 

Quarks are considered to be elementary particles within the standard model. There is, to my knowledge no tangible evidence that quarks have any internal structure.

 

are there subquantum particles or virtual time and distance?

 

What would subquantum mean?

 

is heat an electromagnetic wave similar to light?

If a light wave is made up of photons, then what is heat wave made of?

 

All warm objects emit electromagnetic radiation, this is known as thermal radiation. For objects around room temperature the electromagnetic radiation is in the infrared (IR) range. Thermal radiation is one of the ways heat is exchanged.

[steevey]

By "hot" you mean have a well-defined temperature?

 

If so then the temperature of a single particle is not defined. Temperature is really the measure of the average kinetic energy of a large collection of particles.

 

 

 

Again, the temperature is not defined for a single particle. Maybe you are asking about the energy needed to create free quarks or the temperature of a quark-gluon plasma?

 

 

 

Quarks are considered to be elementary particles within the standard model. There is, to my knowledge no tangible evidence that quarks have any internal structure.

 

 

 

What would subquantum mean?

 

 

 

All warm objects emit electromagnetic radiation, this is known as thermal radiation. For objects around room temperature the electromagnetic radiation is in the infrared (IR) range. Thermal radiation is one of the ways heat is exchanged.

 

Substances emit radiation because the electrons drop back down an energy level, but why do they drop back down? Why don't they keep staying at a new energy level if already they don't just fall into the nucleus?

[ajb]

Substances emit radiation because the electrons drop back down an energy level, but why do they drop back down? Why don't they keep staying at a new energy level if already they don't just fall into the nucleus?

 

All systems would rather be in the lowest energy configuration than an excited one.

[swansont]

Substances emit radiation because the electrons drop back down an energy level, but why do they drop back down? Why don't they keep staying at a new energy level if already they don't just fall into the nucleus?

 

That's not the source of blackbody radiation

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/56628-atomic-spectra/

[36grit]

so an electron and a quark don't really have a tempature but their "state of excitment" is the tempature along with the excited states of the other particles in a given body of particles?

 

I understand that there are hundreds of different kinds of quantum particles, but most of these are made up of a few "prime" quantum particles joined together. I was just wondering how these particles could be bound together wthout some kiind of subquantum structure holding them in place. And if extreme heat or some subquantum variation of heat might have played a roll in their binding.

Edited April 26, 2011 by 36grit

[swansont]

so an electron and a quark don't really have a tempature but their "state of excitment" is the tempature along with the excited states of the other particles in a given body of particles?

 

No, and no. As ajb already pointed out, no single particle has a temperature.

 

Assuming you have a gas of a large number of atoms, the temperature will tell you what fraction of atoms will be in an excited state. The probability of being in an excited state of energy E varies as ^{[math]e^{-{\frac{E}{kT}}}[/math]} At room temperature, kT is about 0.025 eV; by comparison visible light is ~1.5 - 3 eV. For a 1.5 eV transition, a kilomole of a substance would be expected to have one atom excited, perhaps 10% of the time, on average. Thus, excited states involving changes in the principle quantum number don't really come into play much at all until you are quite hot. Also, being in an excited state can happen independent of any thermal distribution.

[steevey]

All systems would rather be in the lowest energy configuration than an excited one.

 

Why would they care what energy state they are in? Or whats making them drop back down?

 

 

 

That's not the source of blackbody radiation

http://www.sciencefo...atomic-spectra/

 

If black body radiation for some weird reason can't have electrons simply go from higher to lower energy levels only in black bodies for some weird reason, why is it that we can use the information of spectra to calculate what elements are in which stars? The only way we could do that is if electrons were going from higher to lower energy orbitals in specific ways, because if electrons were more freely traveling like an electric current, there wouldn't necessary be a pattern distinct to a metal at varying temperatures.

Edited April 27, 2011 by steevey

[36grit]

So, when I was watching some hickory burn in the ole grill last night, what I was "physically" seeing is:

 

Rapid mass decay due to a chain reaction of elemental particles that become excited enough to transform into infrared energy and some photons. and that which was not transformed into energy was transformed into gas (smoke) and ashes.

 

Now If I burn 1 pund of wood completely, I wouldn't have a pound of smoke and ashes would I? Maybe it's a dumb question but where did the extra weight go?

 

If I blow the coals the air actually starts to burn. What gasses in the air are actually burning? Does humity break down into hho amidst the electro magnetic currents of the infrared energy in the same way that water breaks down into hho gas if you put a couple of DC electodes in it close together?

 

 

[ajb]

Why would they care what energy state they are in? Or whats making them drop back down?

 

It is due to the second law of thermodynamics.

 

A system will always want to reach a configuration that minimises the potential energy. This is known as the minimal potential principle.

[Klaynos]

To find the materials in stars we use the atomic absorption dips seen in the black body emission spectra. It is not just an emission spectra but modified by these absorption minima.

[swansont]

If black body radiation for some weird reason can't have electrons simply go from higher to lower energy levels only in black bodies for some weird reason, why is it that we can use the information of spectra to calculate what elements are in which stars? The only way we could do that is if electrons were going from higher to lower energy orbitals in specific ways, because if electrons were more freely traveling like an electric current, there wouldn't necessary be a pattern distinct to a metal at varying temperatures. [/font]

 

In addition to what Klaynos said — the blackbody spectrum is a continuum. The absorption spectra are discrete lines. They are separate effects.

[steevey]

In addition to what Klaynos said — the blackbody spectrum is a continuum. The absorption spectra are discrete lines. They are separate effects.

 

But why can't black bodies emit light due to the electrons going to lower energy levels?

 

It is due to the second law of thermodynamics.

 

A system will always want to reach a configuration that minimises the potential energy. This is known as the minimal potential principle.

 

 

What "makes" that happen on the atomic level though? Is it the classical attraction between a photon and electron and the fact that there's "room" at a lower energy level?

 

Like in the classical world, the reason that law usually happens is because of gravity, like with water. But, since there's stuff in the way which has enough energy to resist the water and remain at its distance from the core, the water doesn't just fall into the center of the Earth.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2011 by steevey

[Klaynos]

But why can't black bodies emit light due to the electrons going to lower energy levels?

 

Because they are two different photon emission phenomena?

[ajb]

What "makes" that happen on the atomic level though? Is it the classical attraction between a photon and electron and the fact that there's "room" at a lower energy level?

 

I am not really sure how to answer that, other than if there is "room" at a lower energy then the electron will, after some time drop into that lower state. The entropy of the universe increases as the photon is emitted. You can have local minima that are not global minima, such states are called metastable states. The life time of metastable states can be large and effectively that can be stable.

[DrRocket]

How hot is an electron?

 

I'd say Electra is definitely hot.