God gave humanity to Satan as a gift and reward.

[lemur]

This might work except if you think of your sins. They aware likely fun.

 

Most of mine were rather enjoyable and fun or I would not have done them.

There's usually some reason people sin. Even when it's not fun or otherwise pleasurable, you could look at it in terms of Freud's death drive.

 

No self destruction involved.

Are you sure about that? Maybe you're just not aware of the damage you caused. Can you give an example of harmless sin?

 

God seems to think that repentance is crucial and if it is, then we must all sin as we must all repent.

According to Christianity, everyone is a sinner and the issue is getting them to recognize it and confess their sins before God. Repentance isn't some arbitrary standard set by an arbitrary God. It just so happens that people can't find inner-peace without owning up to them and expressing regret. In Freudian terms, it's like a repressed anxiety that has to come out of repression to be dealt with.

 

 

[imatfaal]

 

Are you sure about that? Maybe you're just not aware of the damage you caused. Can you give an example of harmless sin?

 

 

Taking the name of the lord your god in vain, fornication, worshipping false idols, onanism

[A Tripolation]

Taking the name of the lord your god in vain, fornication, worshipping false idols, onanism

 

Maybe the first and third, if you don't count hurting your Creator with your words and actions (which I'm assuming most atheists do not). But the second can result in unwanted pregnancy and a neglected child, and I'm pretty for sure the last one was only mentioned in the OT, where it was also acceptable to stone a promiscuous priest's daughter.

[lemur]

Taking the name of the lord your god in vain, fornication, worshipping false idols, onanism

Abusing the name of God is spiritual obfuscation, so it destroys clarity of reasoning by using words to refer to things that confuse their meaning. Fornication is insincere use of sex to "make love" with someone whom you don't really love enough to empathize with them losing the love you're about to give them. This is why men who love women while planning to abandon them are traditionally called "heartbreakers." Worshipping false idols is more spiritual obfuscation, plus it is a form of egoism because you worship the identity of something instead of the thing itself. The only thing that really honors God is to use the creative power you have - that is the purpose of (the) creation, to use it without destroying it or perverting it to lead it into destruction. Onanism is a sin of spiritual diversion, imo. People are supposed to focus on higher spirituality and loving each other. None of these sins do really immense harm, but I don't think you can say that they are 100% harmless either. I think you just have to acknowledge what harm they do do and by doing so raise your consciousness and try to come up with ways to live a better life. It may not immediately be possible to do so, for example, because you are in a situation where you're ability to sincerely love and devote your energy to another person is constrained - and so fornication and/or onanism occur as a result of stifled attempts to express your sexuality in more productive ways. But even sins that are the result of other sins still have to be acknowledged as sins. E.g. a person who steals because he can't get a job needs to sin to survive, but he can still regret it and seek further for a path out of sin knowing that he's forgiven. Christianity, imo, is mainly about keeping people on a path to redemption and discouraging them from falling into the trap of shame and giving up on hope and the sense that they are forgivable and thus capable of good (i.e. not totally evil people because they've done bad things).

[imatfaal]

If you are gonna redefine everything to make it harmful then; Yes, you are right all sin is harmful.

[Greatest I am]

The Devil does not torture bad guys. Nor does he have dominion over the lake of fire. This is a common misconception, even amongst Christians.

 

 

 

Except the whole "cast out of heaven" part, huh? You wanna gloss over that some more?

 

Individual words and their meaning we may never know.

Scripture also says that God cursed the earth.

Do you see a cursed earth or a wonderful planet that man has thrived on?

 

The point is, as far as scripture says, Satan is our prince and would have to be if the temptation of Jesus is to have any legitimacy.

 

Further, does it make sense to you that God would sentence Satan to hell and then defer the sentence for 2000 years so that Satan can run about corrupting those that God loves. Including his first brand new proto humans?

 

If yes.

 

Really?

 

That makes sense?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

 

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'lemur' timestamp='1304447615' post='605060']

There's usually some reason people sin. Even when it's not fun or otherwise pleasurable, you could look at it in terms of Freud's death drive.

 

 

Are you sure about that? Maybe you're just not aware of the damage you caused. Can you give an example of harmless sin?

 

 

According to Christianity, everyone is a sinner and the issue is getting them to recognize it and confess their sins before God.

Now you have gone and confused me. You say this above which is true, which is basically an arbitrary standard, and then say it is not below. Perhaps it is my poor language skills.

 

Repentance isn't some arbitrary standard set by an arbitrary God. It just so happens that people can't find inner-peace without owning up to them and expressing regret. In Freudian terms, it's like a repressed anxiety that has to come out of repression to be dealt with.

 

 

 

The standard is set by God, as far as that fictional Bible is conserned. Perhaps it is just the word "arbitrary" that is throwing me off.

 

Regards

DL