Can, and does God change?

[A Tripolation]

Three heads all un-equal. Four if you count the human Jesus.

 

You are making stuff up as you go.

 

No. This is accepted Christian theology. Make yourself more familiar with it if you seek to discredit it.

 

Reprint from the O P

 

"Scripture seems to contradict this definition. It shows a N T Jesus that must learn and an O T God who changes thanks to repenting."

 

 

Not to be crude but---------what other fucking holy book other than the Bible has a N T and O T?

 

 

Lets let the op tell us what he meant

 

He just did. And he was speaking of the Judeo-Christian God.

 

There are, as I have pointed out, other schools of thought about god.... even within the Judeo Christian network... You assumption that no other god was relevant and that numbers decided what was real is also invalid...

 

No. There aren't. Every Christian agrees with the fact that Jesus died and was sinless. That He was a sacrifice, and thus, our Savior. Hence the label, Christian. And also, my assumption was not invalid, as Greatest I Am has shown. He WAS speaking of the God I was. So, none of your accusations have any merit.

Edited May 3, 2011 by A Tripolation

[Moontanman]

Fine then we can exclude all other monotheistic religions, Judaism, and Islam would seem to be the other big players in this arena as well as all other relgions, but if we exclude them and assume the Christian theology is absolute truth I do understand the question but posing it as Judeo Christian is invalid since Judaism does not include Christianity.

 

A Tripolation, I am not trying to be obtuse here, you say god like we all know exactly what you are talking about but even within the Christian religion you have Catholics and Protestants, inside there you have literally thousands of smaller entities, try on Mormonism for size or better yet The Freewill Triple Rock Holiness Rod of God Ministries, you claim to know what Christians believe but i have my doubts that anyone really does....

[A Tripolation]

A Tripolation, I am not trying to be obtuse here, you say god like we all know exactly what you are talking about but even within the Christian religion you have Catholics and Protestants, inside there you have literally thousands of smaller entities, try on Mormonism for size or better yet The Freewill Triple Rock Holiness Rod of God Ministries, you claim to know what Christians believe but i have my doubts that anyone really does....

 

I understand what you're saying. However, the convention is to use lowercase god when talking of the polytheistic gods, and uppercase God when speaking of the monotheistic God (this includes Allah, who is referred to as God). And when speaking on a topic that is related to the the NT, I just feel that it's fairly obvious that when I say God, I mean the Christian one.

 

Catholics and Protestants all believe in the same God. They just argue over the stupid, minor details. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but it seems to me like you don't really know Christianity as an idea, and that's where a lot of confusion is coming from.

 

I do know what Christians believe. It's a concretely-defined term.

[Moontanman]

I understand what you're saying. However, the convention is to use lowercase god when talking of the polytheistic gods, and uppercase God when speaking of the monotheistic God (this includes Allah, who is referred to as God). And when speaking on a topic that is related to the the NT, I just feel that it's fairly obvious that when I say God, I mean the Christian one.

 

Catholics and Protestants all believe in the same God. They just argue over the stupid, minor details. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but it seems to me like you don't really know Christianity as an idea, and that's where a lot of confusion is coming from.

 

I do know what Christians believe. It's a concretely-defined term.

 

 

I'm not so sure you (or anyone else really) do know what all or even most Christians believe, I know you have a good idea of what Christianity is thought by most to believe but some worship only Jesus, in some churches he is a lesser player, some give enough credence to other players to actually pray to them, and in the Rod of God ministries Jesus takes a back seat to having several parishioners hold you down while the pastor beats the devil out of you with a oak rod about the size of a large mans thumb and 6 feet long (has to be oak) they often beat people unconscious to get the devil out of them I often wonder if at least some of the church burnings are caused by such Churches, i know if they did that to me someone would die after I recovered.

[A Tripolation]

and in the Rod of God ministries Jesus takes a back seat to having several parishioners hold you down while the pastor beats the devil out of you...

 

If "Jesus is your Savior" is not the main focus of their teachings, then they are not Christians. Simple as that.

[Moontanman]

If "Jesus is your Savior" is not the main focus of their teachings, then they are not Christians. Simple as that.

 

 

For you possibly, and most do at least claim that, but the devil is in the details my friend...

[A Tripolation]

For you possibly, and most do at least claim that, but the devil is in the details my friend...

 

No, it truly is that simple. I'm aware of all the different beliefs and hundreds of denominations of Christians, but they must still BELIEVE in Christ to be considered Christians. Just as Muslims must believe in Muhammad and Allah to be Muslims.

Edited May 3, 2011 by A Tripolation

[Moontanman]

No, it truly is that simple. I'm aware of all the different beliefs and hundreds of denominations of Christians, but they mist still BELIEVE in Christ to be considered Christians. Just as Muslims must believe in Muhammad and Allah to be Muslims.

 

 

Believing in Christ and the claims being made about him in this thread do not necessarily follow each other, you are aware of the beliefs of all Christian denominations? there are thousands of them, not hundreds... Even Muslims believe Jesus was real...

Edited May 3, 2011 by Moontanman

[Greatest I am]

No, it truly is that simple. I'm aware of all the different beliefs and hundreds of denominations of Christians, but they mist still BELIEVE in Christ to be considered Christians. Just as Muslims must believe in Muhammad and Allah to be Muslims.

 

If it is the Christ/Jesus of the Trinity you are speaking of then, no.

 

Further, if you check this article, the part on non-Trinitarians, it will show that not all believe the same way about Jesus.

 

Further, you indicated above that the three or four heads were not equal but this articles also says that that is false.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Nontrinitarians

 

Regards

DL

 

 

[Moontanman]

The deeper you delve into this the murkier it becomes, I spent much of my life trying to figure it out but it's just what your local pastor tells you basically. Used to follow a particular pastor as he went from church to church, the point of his sermons depended on what that particular little church believed in, when he went to one that used rattlesnakes i started to wonder just what was really believed.

[A Tripolation]

If it is the Christ/Jesus of the Trinity you are speaking of then, no.

 

Further, if you check this article, the part on non-Trinitarians, it will show that not all believe the same way about Jesus.

 

Further, you indicated above that the three or four heads were not equal but this articles also says that that is false.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Nontrinitarians

 

Regards

DL

 

They are not equal in duties, powers, and the way they interact with us.

 

Hm. Funny. Those people still believe in Christ. And are thus Christians.

[Kturbo]

God absolute does not change and I am talking about the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.God is the ultimate in all things except sin.What new thing could there be for God to learn or know.Yes his creations change but he does not.Does God consult anyone for advice,help or knowledge? NO! That's why he is God,the one true God.

[Greatest I am]

They are not equal in duties, powers, and the way they interact with us.

 

Hm. Funny. Those people still believe in Christ. And are thus Christians.

 

Not strange to me as there are a myriad of Christian sects.

 

That may be why there are and always has been division on that belief.

It is too weird to comprehend and is a make up as you go theology.

 

You seen to fathom the unfathomable, an impossible task.

 

Regards

DL

 

God absolute does not change and I am talking about the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.God is the ultimate in all things except sin.What new thing could there be for God to learn or know.Yes his creations change but he does not.Does God consult anyone for advice,help or knowledge? NO! That's why he is God,the one true God.

 

Other than hear say and book say, all hear say, how do you know that he is the one true God?

If he is not the ultimate in sin, then who do you place above him and thus break the first commandment?

 

You say God cannot change. That being the case, God cannot know you as you are new to the universe. If he is not allowed to change, accept new facts, the fact that you were born, then why would you follow him?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

[ponderer]

 

People who regard others as insignificant amoebas are usually those who feel weak, dominated, cynical regarding goodness and creativity, and/or that power is inherently dangerous and corrupting. Those are the people that want to regard themselves and others as insignificant and small because they fear power and the responsibility that comes with it.

 

I would take issue with this. I would say that these people are the most significant thing in the universe to themselves, and everyone else is a niggar.

 

People who are kind and generous see themselves as less important and see themselves as part of a greater social-ecological structure to which they show a commitment above and beyond beyond their personal needs.

 

The corrupt need to see themselves as less important to fit in. All they are trying to do is get ahead, which by nature means leaving everyone else behind, by climbing over everyone else. Social graces become a disguise for underlying selfishness and self-important ego.

[Athena]

Three heads all un-equal. Four if you count the human Jesus.

 

You are making stuff up as you go.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

 

Foolishness must be quoted in order to discredit it.

 

Christians here should take the advise of this Jew and ask Jews how to interpret the book that they plagiarized.

 

 

 

 

Regards

DL

 

==============================

 

Reprint from the O P

 

"Scripture seems to contradict this definition. It shows a N T Jesus that must learn and an O T God who changes thanks to repenting."

 

 

Not to be crude but---------what other fucking holy book other than the Bible has a N T and O T?

 

Regards

DL

 

 

Wow that was a pretty direct statement. May be if I knew the Jewish interpretation of the Torah it would be believable, but given what I know, it seems to me the Hebrews plagiarized Sumerian stories. However, I do think the Torah records a lot of wisdom. I wonder if our planet would be in a whole lot better condition if we let our land, rivers, lakes and oceans rest every seven years, allowing these systems, we depend on for food, to regenerate. It gets difficult when wisdom and biased history get all mixed up with mythology and prejudices. There is truth there, but that doesn't make it all true, and I can not imagine a God having chosen people, like the patron gods and goddesses before the one God.

 

As I read the explanation of slaves, only Jews can't be slaves, but they can owe slaves and their son's inherit them, and slaves were not equal under that law. I think there is a problem with this reasoning.

 

Not strange to me as there are a myriad of Christian sects.

 

That may be why there are and always has been division on that belief.

It is too weird to comprehend and is a make up as you go theology.

 

You seen to fathom the unfathomable, an impossible task.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

Other than hear say and book say, all hear say, how do you know that he is the one true God?

If he is not the ultimate in sin, then who do you place above him and thus break the first commandment?

 

You say God cannot change. That being the case, God cannot know you as you are new to the universe. If he is not allowed to change, accept new facts, the fact that you were born, then why would you follow him?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

 

Can I add to your logic that for a lake to not change, nothing that is outside of the lake can exist, because that which is not of the lake, changes the lake. So much as a stormy day changes the lake. So either everything has to be God, or God has to change with the existence of that which is not God. Is that logic right?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Athena

[lemur]

I would take issue with this. I would say that these people are the most significant thing in the universe to themselves, and everyone else is a niggar.

But also note that it is people who view themselves as powerless and their actions as relatively insignificant that are prone to take the least responsibility for the consequences of those actions. When you get a great deal of people who are reacting to their lack of power and acting irresponsibly, the effects can be greater than when the strongest-willed individuals pursue their goals with everything they can muster.

 

People who are kind and generous see themselves as less important and see themselves as part of a greater social-ecological structure to which they show a commitment above and beyond beyond their personal needs.

Generosity and kindness are sometimes performed to garner the social power that comes with gratitude and respect. This is not to say that these attributes are always destructive, but that they have many more negative effects than people recognize.

 

The corrupt need to see themselves as less important to fit in. All they are trying to do is get ahead, which by nature means leaving everyone else behind, by climbing over everyone else. Social graces become a disguise for underlying selfishness and self-important ego.

But the reactions to these are also disguises for the things you mention. People try to regulate people climbing over each other by installing and patrolling social hierarchies and territorializations of who should do which work when and how, to prevent competition, for example. Also, trying to get ahead doesn't necessarily leave everyone behind. It depends on the specifics of what you're talking about. You should try to avoid generalizing statements unless you've tried to come up with a scenario that proves them wrong and failed at least a few times.

 

 

I don't really post here anymore, but thanks for responding to something I said. Good luck.

[Greatest I am]

Wow that was a pretty direct statement. May be if I knew the Jewish interpretation of the Torah it would be believable, but given what I know, it seems to me the Hebrews plagiarized Sumerian stories. However, I do think the Torah records a lot of wisdom. I wonder if our planet would be in a whole lot better condition if we let our land, rivers, lakes and oceans rest every seven years, allowing these systems, we depend on for food, to regenerate. It gets difficult when wisdom and biased history get all mixed up with mythology and prejudices. There is truth there, but that doesn't make it all true, and I can not imagine a God having chosen people, like the patron gods and goddesses before the one God.

 

As I read the explanation of slaves, only Jews can't be slaves, but they can owe slaves and their son's inherit them, and slaves were not equal under that law. I think there is a problem with this reasoning.

 

 

 

Can I add to your logic that for a lake to not change, nothing that is outside of the lake can exist, because that which is not of the lake, changes the lake. So much as a stormy day changes the lake. So either everything has to be God, or God has to change with the existence of that which is not God. Is that logic right?

 

I would say that that is a correct statement.

 

One quick word on slavery.

 

No religion has ever devised a demographic pyramid that did not have a bottom tier.

Neither has any governmental system including democracy.

 

Religions called them slaves and democracy, being more diplomatic perhaps, calles them the poor or working poor or indentured workers etc.

 

In a sense, Christianity, by leaving slavery legal and setting conditions for treatment, may actually be more honest than democracy, which make makes it illegal, without enforcing it and not giving our modern day slaves any protection under the law at all, except for the lip service.

 

Strange.

 

Regards

DL

[Kturbo]

Not strange to me as there are a myriad of Christian sects.

 

That may be why there are and always has been division on that belief.

It is too weird to comprehend and is a make up as you go theology.

 

You seen to fathom the unfathomable, an impossible task.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

Other than hear say and book say, all hear say, how do you know that he is the one true God?

If he is not the ultimate in sin, then who do you place above him and thus break the first commandment?

 

You say God cannot change. That being the case, God cannot know you as you are new to the universe. If he is not allowed to change, accept new facts, the fact that you were born, then why would you follow him?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

 

I think you are missing the point,God exist from eternity to eternity,we and everything exist within that so there is never anything new to God,there is no new information to him.Since he exist from eternity to eternity then this is a testament to his unfathomable supremacy and there this absolutely give him the position as the True God.Sin has not place in God's presence,sin is anything that is done in opposition to God's way.God is supreme,this is why the devil wanted to be like him but such infinite power cannot never be wielded by evil.

[Greatest I am]

I think you are missing the point,God exist from eternity to eternity,we and everything exist within that so there is never anything new to God,there is no new information to him.Since he exist from eternity to eternity then this is a testament to his unfathomable supremacy and there this absolutely give him the position as the True God.Sin has not place in God's presence,sin is anything that is done in opposition to God's way.God is supreme,this is why the devil wanted to be like him but such infinite power cannot never be wielded by evil.

 

 

If God and evil cannot be in the same place, then Satan could not have been in heaven,

 

God could not have been in Eden, Satan and God could not have been betting over Job and the temptation of Jesus could not have happened.

 

You have just destroyed most of the Bible that points to your miracle working absentee god. Good.

 

Thanks for showing how well you can fathom the unfathomable.

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

[Kturbo]

If God and evil cannot be in the same place, then Satan could not have been in heaven,

 

God could not have been in Eden, Satan and God could not have been betting over Job and the temptation of Jesus could not have happened.

 

You have just destroyed most of the Bible that points to your miracle working absentee god. Good.

 

Thanks for showing how well you can fathom the unfathomable.

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

 

Indeed evil cannot dwell in God's presence,that's why Satan was thrown out of heaven.Satan could absolutely not have maintained his position in heaven with evil being found in him.Didn't Jesus always rebuke evil when it came into his presence? DL you actually do believe in God,even though you do not want to admit it.I find it strange that people are always angry at God and blame him for everything,yet they say nothing about the devil or blame him for anything.

 

Think of God's mercy for a minute,even the very breathe we use to curse his name he provides it.

[GateOfRain]

Lest he was lost in a black hole bearing no time, he'd rather function like a clock. And lest we sorta hit him every year in space, I guess he'll have to move a bit.