Status of the English Language in the U.S.A. ?

[Hal.]

I've never been to the U.S.A. and I'd like to ask if those who live there consider English to be a foreign language ?

[ydoaPs]

I've never been to the U.S.A. and I'd like to ask if those who live there consider English to be a foreign language ?

American is actually quite similar to English. In fact, they're interchangeable in most instances.

[Hal.]

So , do people think english is not a foreign language ?

[ydoaPs]

Not anymore.

[Hal.]

Is Shawnee a foreign language ?

[ydoaPs]

Is Shawnee a foreign language ?

no. It's more like an endangered language. The point I think you're trying to make is pretty stupid, by the way. Almost ALL languages are foreign to where they're used now.

[Hal.]

I am not making a stupid point about anything .

[lemur]

Describing English and 'American' as different languages is a foreign concept to me. I don't even think of English as having different organized dialects. I just think everyone has their own approach to speaking English. Any individuals' speech patterns may be influenced by a number of factors, though, so attempts to define language diversity according to dialects is overbearing and reductive of diversity at the individual level, imo.

Edited May 13, 2011 by lemur

[Hal.]

Is what is called ' American ' just a foreign dialect of english because the Indian nation is at home ?

[Ringer]

I don't think you are phrasing your question very well. American English is a dialect of English just like European English is a dialect. There are different dialects within those dialects like the southern dialect in America. But you have to understand that the gap between a dialect and a language is very arbitrary.

 

A well used saying in linguistics is 'a language is a dialect with an army and a navy.'

[Hal.]

Is Spanish considered to be a foreign language in the U.S.A.?

 

 

[Ringer]

Yes; although America doesn't have a national language, as far as I'm aware this is illegal for some reason, Spanish is a foreign language. As are the native languages that were here before English. Spanish is the second most common language it is different, foreign in this sense, than what most people in America have generally accepted as the common language. Foreign language doesn't necessarily mean from somewhere else, it is also used as 'not the common language'.

[insane_alien]

hal, what you seem to be heavily implying although never getting round to actually saying is that yyou think that the language of the native people has some property that should make it the official language of a country.

 

well, i have news for you, in exactly zero countries is there a truely native people or truely native language.

 

languages develop over time, it is inevitable. Look at english, if we brought a 12th century person to the present, we would be able to communicate but not very well even if the 12th century person was very well educated in the english language because the language has changed significantly. and this is only over a few centuries. over a few millenia and then its like comparing english to swahili, completely different.

 

that and since human originated in africa, migrated, invaded and so on, the tribes that held mitochondrial eve and y chromosonal adam were likely displaced so none of our ancestors are where they 'should' be according the naiive view of nativeness.

 

and if you are going to bring up modern immigration, well, what makes ancient and historical immigration any more significant?

[lemur]

Yes; although America doesn't have a national language, as far as I'm aware this is illegal for some reason, Spanish is a foreign language. As are the native languages that were here before English. Spanish is the second most common language it is different, foreign in this sense, than what most people in America have generally accepted as the common language. Foreign language doesn't necessarily mean from somewhere else, it is also used as 'not the common language'.

While it is true that there are a wide array of public settings where you can use English comfortably, this is true for the most part globally. It is also true that a large number of English speakers in the US (I assume by "America" you mean "US") regard English as having some special territorial right, this is nothing more than a popular desire to define culture in order to exclude other languages than English for social-economic reason, imo. There's no reason why US English speakers couldn't all learn Spanish and use that language just as fluently as English. There are ethnic preferences and territorialism involved with attitudes toward language.

[timo]

Yes; although America doesn't have a national language, as far as I'm aware this is illegal for some reason

That's interesting because prior to your post I had used "national language" and "official language" synonymously. Since I assume that English is the US official language in the sense that all important documents must be written in English (which does not exclude that they are also written in other languages; Switzerland, for example, has three official languages), I guess I was wrong.

[Hal.]

I asked simple questions about current language status in the U.S.A. of some languages . I don't want to Wiki everything when such a fine forum as this is available for discussion . The simple questions were adequately addressed in replies . I don't think I'm trying to imply anything that a person must understand from ' reading between the lines ' . There is no double meaning on my part and if I thought that the native U.S. languages should have an official status of being the languages of the U.S.A. I assure those who doubt that I would say so , that I would .

 

English , Spanish , German , Chinese , Italian , Hebrew , Arabic , ................ these languages have their places in the U.S.A. and that's a fact .

 

In my opinion , the Indian peoples do not need recognition of themselves and their languages and dialects in their own lands from anybody other than themselves .

[Klaynos]

http://www.ilw.com/immigrationdaily/news/2007,0515-crs.pdf

 

Seems like an interesting read.

[Marat]

Legally, each state is entitled to legislate as to its own common language of commerce and interaction with governmental authorities. Pennsylvania, for example, in the early years of the American Republic, actually seriously considered declaring its state official language to be German. Free speech rights in the Federal Bill of Rights and in various state constitutions would always secure some rights for people who wanted to express themselves in some language other than the official one, however.

 

Since every nation on earth was once occupied by someone else, and all current settlement is the product of migration, conquest, and displacement, history cannot establish what has to be the 'just' language of any area. Otherwise, depending on the point of origin you select, the people in France today would be required to speak Latin, Gaulish, or some proto-Indo-European tongue rather than modern French. Thus the Natives have no more claim to say that theirs is the language of America than Lawrence Welk's community of German speakers in Wisconsin have the right to set up German as the national language. The present Native peoples themselves invaded each others' territories prior to European contact, so where Cree is now spoken perhaps there should 'really' be Navaho spoken instead, and until we have better archeologial evidence, we can never know who speaks the 'historically justified' language in any particular place. It is thus more sensible just to let the current majority of speakers determine the lingua franca.

[Hal.]

I would like to think that what is being suggested is actually not just a justification for colonialism . Those who are being colonised do not need to give justification of their claims to the colonisers . The system of the colonisers is nothing to the people being colonised . It is an invention of the coloniser . (IMO)

Edited May 14, 2011 by hal_2011