Plagiarism or Independent Invention ?

[Hal.]

Here I am , browsing the net , enjoying the reading , subconsciously absorbing the multiple thoughts encountered . Let's say that in 11 years time I suddenly wake up on a fine day and go , Eureka ! . I've just had a brilliant thought that explains the previously inexplicable and it's , as far as I'm concerned , my contribution to world knowledge . But unbeknown to me I've just regurgitated the forgotten ramblings of a long since forgotten poster from here and now .

 

Am I commiting plagiarism if I genuinely think this is my work or would I possibly independently be discovering something worthwhile ?

[michel123456]

Here I am , browsing the net , enjoying the reading , subconsciously absorbing the multiple thoughts encountered . Let's say that in 11 years time I suddenly wake up on a fine day and go , Eureka ! . I've just had a brilliant thought that explains the previously inexplicable and it's , as far as I'm concerned , my contribution to world knowledge . But unbeknown to me I've just regurgitated the forgotten ramblings of a long since forgotten poster from here and now .

 

Am I commiting plagiarism if I genuinely think this is my work or would I possibly independently be discovering something worthwhile ?

 

From here?

You mean Here, this Forum?

[ajb]

Am I commiting plagiarism if I genuinely think this is my work or would I possibly independently be discovering something worthwhile ?

 

Things get independently discovered at about the same time quite often. That is certainly not plagiarism. Also, things get re-discovered and only later on is it realised that these things were known. This can be more tricky, and depending on the details of how the re-discovery was made the work maybe considered new and original. For example, in mathematics a simpler proof of a well established theorem is considered new work.

 

A good look at the existing literature and talking to experts (even journal referees!) will usually let you know if the discovery has already been made. But this is not infallible.

[rigney]

Here I am , browsing the net , enjoying the reading , subconsciously absorbing the multiple thoughts encountered . Let's say that in 11 years time I suddenly wake up on a fine day and go , Eureka ! . I've just had a brilliant thought that explains the previously inexplicable and it's , as far as I'm concerned , my contribution to world knowledge . But unbeknown to me I've just regurgitated the forgotten ramblings of a long since forgotten poster from here and now .

 

Am I commiting plagiarism if I genuinely think this is my work or would I possibly independently be discovering something worthwhile ?

 

At present, it has been tabulated that there are approx. 1,000,000 words in the English language, alone.

 

I wrote this short poem some years back, taking every bit of credit for it that I could. But am I so dumb as to think those words were never uttered in that context or thought pattern before? You can even read it. I was looking at the painting of an old farmhouse, barn, tractor and a gravel road running through a gate and down to the creek.

It was a three or four minute brain twister to write, and I've changed words in it ever since. But never the meaning.

 

Old Paths and Dreams

 

I wish new paths were open today: 'stead of trails we've all left behind.

But search as we may and as hard as we try, there's few out there left to find!

 

Do you ever look back on a scene such as this and feel not a pang of sadness?

Yet lucky enough to remember the times when your days were filled with gladness?

 

Not sports cars, jet planes, baubles or such, but things that money can't buy.

Like walking to school on a cold wintery day, proud; with you head held high.

 

Or shucking your jeans for a romp in the creek, on a lazy; hot summer day

After running a tractor all morning long in the meadow "winnowing" hay.

 

Maybe pulling the cover from a third in the bed when the snow was billowed and deep.

And wind thru the cracks in that rustic old house, so cold you hardly could sleep.

 

But meals were readied each day of the year, no matter how tight things might seem

By Mom who made sure they were always set out, compliant with my childhood dream.

 

Do I remember? Bet that I do. Would I change it, what can I say!!

With food on the tabel and love in the house, there just wasn't no better way.

 

Plagiarism? Every word of what I wrote was thought and spoken long before I could ever read.

Edited May 16, 2011 by rigney

[lemur]

Rigney, nice poem.

 

Thread: Plagiarism is an ego trip, imo. If someone honestly had a similar idea to someone else, and they manage to discover each other's work, why shouldn't they just collaborate to take it further instead of bickering over who came up with the idea first? There's always progress to made with anything by developing it further.

[imatfaal]

Lemur - that's not plagiarism. Plagiarism has a actual component - repeating without reference/attribution someone else's ideas, phrasing, research, etc and a mental component that this was done with a deliberate intention to deceive and pass the work off as one's own. What you are describing is commonplace and the germ of many fruitful collaborations; that two independent minds can come to the same conclusion from the available data is affirming and immensely gratifying.

[lemur]

Lemur - that's not plagiarism. Plagiarism has a actual component - repeating without reference/attribution someone else's ideas, phrasing, research, etc and a mental component that this was done with a deliberate intention to deceive and pass the work off as one's own. What you are describing is commonplace and the germ of many fruitful collaborations; that two independent minds can come to the same conclusion from the available data is affirming and immensely gratifying.

Direct plagiarism could never occur as an unconscious result of reading something in the past and having it re-emerge as one's own idea. One would have to express the remembered idea in one's own words. But even a plagiarized idea could be published in the interest of personal gain and have nothing to do with wanting to stimulate discourse on the topic. Some people are just in a race for fame and the privileges that come with publication.

[rigney]

Direct plagiarism could never occur as an unconscious result of reading something in the past and having it re-emerge as one's own idea. One would have to express the remembered idea in one's own words. But even a plagiarized idea could be published in the interest of personal gain and have nothing to do with wanting to stimulate discourse on the topic. Some people are just in a race for fame and the privileges that come with publication.

 

A young gal in N. Carolina wrote the song a few years before Graham had grown from diapers into his teens. Young, dumb, full of cum' and blind as a bat, she sang the song for the beauty she had written. Comes along a cool dude with $$$. Very cunning, so now the song belongs to someone else. But is it plagiarism to extend it to another musical level? If someone sells it from under your ass and you know it's happening,? "Daa". The song:"Hickory Wind". The link below describes what transpired. http://www.folklinks.com/hickory_wind.html Edited May 17, 2011 by rigney

[Hal.]

 

My teenage english schooling sometimes required the memorization of short passages of shakespeare and of poetic literature . If that piece of work of Rigney was memorised by me , I would probably still remember it in 11 years time , once I recall it a few times before 2022 . I doubt , I could have a Eureka moment in 2022 of saying this piece of work and thinking it is my own because it would be very difficult to forget totally after memorisation and then ' reinvent ' it .

 

But , if somebody happened to give math expressions which explain a way of thinking and I temporarily remember these like RAM in a computer , at that time , I think it could be very likely that at some time in the future I could suddenly wake up and have my Eureka moment , where being the nature of math , I start with an expression I've seen before , but honestly don't remember this and after attempts deriving mathmatical solutions , I finish with the same result I saw before .

 

Isn't ignorance of plagiarism no defence ?