the ultimate feminine pleasure

[lemur]

Could the holy grail of feminine gratification be total satisfaction as a result of someone else pursuing the means of satisfaction as a goal? In other words, is the ultimate feminine fantasy to be pleased without having to pursue gratification actively in any way; i.e. to simply be so attractive that everything will fall into place as it pleases you?

 

if this sounds misogynist, apologies. I am simply exploring the meaning of femininity as a cultural construct and wondering if anyone else has insights.

[Stefan-CoA]

As a man, I can't properly answer this, but I feel dirty just reading it. I dunno, there's something "sticky" about this topic. Like I wouldn't want to shake it's hand at a party.

 

I think if anything the meaning of feminism is simply to be comfortable with yourself as a woman and depart from the historically defined role as a woman (except of course if that is what she wants).

[Marat]

Perhaps the desire to be passively pleasured with no active pursuit of pleasure is the goal of both sexes. Just consider the 'Orgasmatron' of Woody Allen's movie, 'Sleeper.'

[zapatos]

Could the holy grail of feminine gratification be total satisfaction as a result of someone else pursuing the means of satisfaction as a goal? In other words, is the ultimate feminine fantasy to be pleased without having to pursue gratification actively in any way; i.e. to simply be so attractive that everything will fall into place as it pleases you?

 

if this sounds misogynist, apologies. I am simply exploring the meaning of femininity as a cultural construct and wondering if anyone else has insights.

Topics that I treat with extreme caution:

 

Your money.

How you raise your kids.

My wife's mother.

Holy grail of feminine gratification.

Feminine fantasies.

Generalizations about what women want.

Suggestions that women feel attractiveness is their number one goal.

Suggestions that women desire to be put on a pedestal.

 

I think I may just watch this from the sidelines.

[insane_alien]

now, i can't say with absolute authority because i'm not female but i get more satisfaction from putting in a bit of effort. I'm pretty confident that women are the same.

[Hal.]

Is OP in love ?

[lemur]

Considering the sensitivities I seem to have triggered with this thread, I should be explicit with what I mean exactly with "feminine" as a cultural identity separate from just referring to all females and/or their behavior. By "feminine," I am really referring to cultures of subordination that are passed down primarily to women to socialize them to be subordinate to men. I believe if you read various sociological/feminist literature, you will find discussions of things like "feminization of economic labor" or "femininity of upper class culture" (both referring to men as well as women). So the cultural development I'm raising for discussion here relates generally to the idea that women should be (made) dependent on men (creating a culture of feminine weakness), but then this culture develops into one where people dream of controlling their own beneficiary status as dependents of a productive system they are excluded from participating in. An economic example could be the development of absentee ownership (Veblen?) through stock-markets and other bureaucratic-economic institutions that came about around the beginning of the 20th century. So, I'm not saying that women who fall into the dreams of feminity are inferior anymore than I would say that people who make their living on stock trading are. I was just questioning whether the ultimate dream for both would be to have a totally self-organizing system to their benefit. I'm sure insane alien is right that just as many women as men get pleasure from exerting effort - but that doesn't mean the dream of total gratification without so much as having to ask for anything doesn't continue as a cultural tradition in some form. Or am I describing something that could better be described without reference to feminity at all?

[Athena]

I have a very romantic notion of being feminine, and it is different from what others have said. However, I will agree with insane alien about the effort being part of the pleasure. I discover this as young woman when I began gardening. I wish everyone could have a garden, because there are some things that we can know only through experience. Up to the experience of gardening, I thought pleasure came from partying, but knew that was a very temporary pleasure. However, the pleasure we get when we achieve something is like money in the bank earning interest. That is, the more we achieve, the better life feels.

 

My image of feminine is influenced by the 50'tys ideal woman and 60'tys Earth Mother Goddess. A homemaker is one of the best things a woman can be. The happiness and success of those around her, are benefited by her homemaking skills and willingness to give of herself. Especially during my periods the feminine within me would peak, and it was if my nerve endings reached far beyond me. This got caught up with the Earth Mother Goddess image, and manifest as a desire to care for the world. I am convinced the best civilization is one in which the feminine aspect is encouraged and honored. This is so tied into gardening which connects us with the seasons and the earth.

 

The height of femininity is the experience of love.

[Marat]

Then what do you think of present feminist theories which suggest that a woman is simply exploited by others if she assumes the traditional supportive and nurturing role of women, and that she should instead be as competitive, self-assertive, and self-centered as the traditional negative image of the alpha-male if she wants to be truly liberated?

[lemur]

Then what do you think of present feminist theories which suggest that a woman is simply exploited by others if she assumes the traditional supportive and nurturing role of women, and that she should instead be as competitive, self-assertive, and self-centered as the traditional negative image of the alpha-male if she wants to be truly liberated?

Do you have a citation? My first thought would be that there are some other feminists who would argue that nurturing is a form of power, but I'm not sure how that relates to the thread topic that total passive reception of benevolence could be a feminine ideal.