novice or lay chemists

[control group]

The responses to the following question are to act as the control group for a blind study on an outside forum regarding the willingness to understand the fundamental principles of organic chemistry.

 

 

Note:

Only novice or lay chemists are asked to respond.

If you have or are studying for any academic accreditation please do not post a reply to this thread.

If you see this question or equation being discussed on an outside forum please do not participate, that is the study group.

 

Question:

 

Explain the organic chemistry principle and function of H2O + HCl <=> H3O+ + Cl-

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

It's a comprehension question there is no right or wrong answer.

Edited May 18, 2011 by control group

[hypervalent_iodine]

Well, I know you said lay/novice chemists only, but I feel the need to point out a rather fundamental flaw in your study. Actually, two flaws.

 

1. Organic chemistry deals with carbon-based compounds. The reaction you have up there has no carbon containing compounds in it and is therefore not considered to be organic chemistry. Maybe you should rephrase your question or come up with a different one.

 

2. This is not a blind study. You've not only informed potential participants explicitly on what this is about, you've even gone so far as to tell them that they are the control group.

 

One other thing: even if you did manage to make this a blind study, your results still hold absolutely no statistical validity. Why? Because you have not a single way of determining if the people participating in this questionnaire have any formal qualifications or any other factors that may promote bias in their results. In other words, you have no basis by which to justify any causal relationships.

[mississippichem]

Even if your question were an organic one, the fact that you have only one question isn't going to allow you to see any trends.

 

I think it's funny that two "non-lay" chemistry people were the first to respond to this thread. It says a lot about how we chemistry people are bothered by non-analytical stats.

 

Even if your question were an organic one, the fact that you have only one question isn't going to allow you to see any trends.

 

You're question is also far too easy for any kind of chemist.

Edited May 18, 2011 by mississippichem

[control group]

There are no right or wrong answers as was stated.

 

At no point dose the word compound appear in the the Question.

 

I apologies my response must be limited.

Edited May 18, 2011 by control group

[hypervalent_iodine]

There are no right or wrong answers as was stated.

 

Sure, but the problem here isn't in the potential answers, it's that your question is flawed and incorrect.

You don't have to mention the word compound, it's implicit. The point is that you mentioned organic chemistry and, well, this isn't organic chemistry.

 

No need to limit your response, this thread holds no statistical value anyway.

[control group]

Therefor the equation H2O + HCl <=> H3O+ + Cl- has no function in the principles of organic chemistry.

[hypervalent_iodine]

...that's what I said, yes.

[control group]

Responses are predetermined.

 

I apologies my response must be limited.

There are no right or wrong answers as was stated.

[hypervalent_iodine]

Responses are predetermined.

I apologies my response must be limited.

There are no right or wrong answers as was stated.

 

Read above for why this thread is statistically invalid.

[Mr C]

I am participating at the request of my colleagues from the science department.

 

I received the grading of Pass B av in high school Chemistry.

 

I consider myself a layman.

 

 

 

(Google) recognises one side of the equation as a solution of hydrochloric acid and water the other as hydronium and chloride.

 

 

 

Library catalogue search: (Principles of Organic Chemistry)

 

Top 5 results:

 

PRINCIPLES OF ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, by Geissman

 

BASIC PRINCIPLES OF ORGANIC CHEMISTR Y, by Roberts & Caserio

 

PRACTICAL ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, by Vogel

 

ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, by Butler & Berlin

 

NEW ORGANIC CHEMISTR Y, by H.L. Keys

 

The colleagues looking over my shoulder refuse to assist in the selection of a research volume.

 

I select PRINCIPLES OF ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, by Geissman. (as it is the top search result)

 

 

 

Volume Index:

 

Hydrochloric acid …….No listing

 

Water………………….Water molecule, shape of, 52

 

Hydronium…………….Hydronium ion, 74

 

Chloride……………….No listing

 

 

 

Page 52:

 

Chapter 3, Atomic and molecular structure. Chemical bonds

 

Page 52 has text regarding bonds and a model of the water molecule.

 

This page and section makes no reference to the equation.

 

　

 

 

 

Page 74:

 

Chapter 4, Acids and bases. Proton-transfer reactions

 

Page 74 is entirely dedicated to the equation, there are mutable references in this chapter.

 

Referenced in sub sections:

 

4-1 Dissociation in solution. The role of the solvent

 

4-2 Dissociation as a displacement reaction

 

4-3 Conjugate acids and bases

 

 

 

Conclusion:

 

The equation is a reference to the principle that solvents other than water such as alcohols, esters and amines containing atoms with unshared electron pairs can undergo the protonation function in the same way.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Mr C

[control group]

The time line for this exercise has expired.

Thanks to all participants.

 

The focus of this thread was to test the statement “Forums are all about criticism”

 

The rules of the scientific method to only include lay chemists and totally exclude academically accredited chemists was to facilitate a situation that scientific rules had to be disregarded so that an academic could critique the thread.

 

Organic chemistry was selected for this exercise because of it’s strict protocols and adherence to the rules of experimental science.

 

It was never an intention to belittle or make any member of this forum appear in anything but a favourable light, this is just a media experiment by a school student with a home work assignment.

 

The forum administrator my delete this thread if they wish.