Nakedness

[Zarnaxus]

Technically, human's had to sin against God to become clothed and were initially intended to be nude.

 

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

 

 

[Light Storm]

Technically, human's had to sin against God to become clothed and were initially intended to be nude.

 

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

 

 

 

 

Reality Reason:

Genesis wasn't written by God, it was a story based on original teachings of Moses.

[lemur]

I think the covering up could be a metaphor for the shame people feel of their creative power after they abuse it and realize they've hurt others. They feel shame and try to hide themselves from exposure of what they've done. Ever had someone do something that harms you and then deny it or avoid you? Did that make you angry? That's what that part of the story is about, I think.

 

As for actual nudity, why should you feel ashamed to walk around nude?

Edited May 26, 2011 by lemur

[ydoaPs]

Why do we wear clothing? Well, the primary function of clothing is to act as an insulator. It keeps us warm in the cold. You can see this by the varying amounts of clothing in varying climates (which also shows that the shame factor you alluded to is not only a secondary function, but is also not a universal one).

 

Reality Reason:

Genesis wasn't written by God, it was a story based on original teachings of Moses.

Moses in all probability never existed, and Genesis was written in 800BC (iirc).

[Light Storm]

Moses in all probability never existed, and Genesis was written in 800BC (iirc).

 

 

"Truth Begins in Lies"

 

That would kind of make sense under Rabbinical Judaism which calculates his life to be somewhere between 1391-1271BC. The Laws of Moses where discovered in a temple in about 625BC. So if my little theory that Moses did exist, and was a teacher of some sort, his story went word of mouth a few generations before it got bastardized into ink 800BC you say. I don't know if you ever played the game where you whisper something into someones ear and have them pass it on, but it's interesting what the last person says it was when compared to what the first said.

 

But details aside

I do believe the man was a murderer

I do believe the man murdered children

I do believe he talked to plants

I do believe he was a hypocrite

I defiantly believe he was a lier

And I defiantly believe he was totally insane.

 

The fact that followers of Bible base the foundation of their morality on that guy is beyond me.

 

 

[CaptainPanic]

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

Because it can be a bit cold to be naked.

Because clothes have pockets, and that's convenient if you want to put your wallet, phone or car keys somewhere.

Because clothes protect you. Ever tried to fry something without wearing a t-shirt? It hurts.

[john5746]

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

 

To keep furniture from smelling ass.

[Ophiolite]

As for actual nudity, why should you feel ashamed to walk around nude?

Because I am fat and ugly and have enough regard for others to spare them the trauma.

[lemur]

I think the message is that shame is a sin. Even if you've sinned in other ways, being ashamed of them is just egoism. Better to redeem than bow in shame, I think.

[Moontanman]

Having been a nudist most of my life I know that wearing clothes can have definite advantages in some situations and that the wearing of clothes can also be a type of ritualistic dominance display as in who ever wears "the best clothes" as defined by the society which they live is also the highest status individual as well. In our modern society religion or morals seems to play a large role in the wearing or not wearing of clothing but not as big a role as many would believe. I think that originally clothing was part of a ritualistic status display like jewelry or scarring and tattoos. As humans slowly migrated to places on the Earth where it was cold part of the year clothing became necessary to stay warm in the cold. As in a lot of human behavior things that are hidden or restricted become things to be curious about and the naked body under clothing became something rarely seen and since sex was usually "done" nude or semi nude the two became associated with each other . An odd part of this reaction can be demonstrated by looking at sexual nature of dressing in clothing that is considered sexy, often shear, reveling and only decorative instead of just being naked to heighten sexual desire.

 

Many people seem to think that clothing keeps people from loosing control of their sexual desires and if every one was nude the desire to have sex would be over whelming. Spending some time in a nudist "camp" would soon convince most people this is not true. It honestly doesn't take more than a few minutes before seeing every one nude becomes no different than seeing everyone at the beach in bathing suits or dressed on any other way. a nudest beach is no more a place of uncontrolled sexual desire than a normal beach, it's the unusual that attracts attention, if every one is nude the person with clothes is the one who appears odd or unusual and attracts the stares. In fact hiding your body makes seeing it it far more desirable than actually seeing it, while this might be obvious for seeing me naked it is also true to people who are considered very desirable physically as well.

 

Some aspects of nudity are often arbitrary and make little sense, a woman who is seen in her underwear is embarrassed but the same woman will wear clothing to the beach which is much more revealing with no problem of embarrassment at all. Think of how out of place you would feel at a beach in a three piece suit if everyone else was in a bathing suit. I don't think humans have any natural aversion to nudity but the cultural aversion to nudity can be very powerful and result in mental harm due to how other people feel about those who are seen nude. This perceived trauma can be very real and can result in an individual being rejected as a member of society for no reason other than them being seen nude in the wrong time or place, this plays very nicely into the world view of victimization that is a big part of our society, the idea that a nude picture can destroy your life by the effects it has on others and their view of you can be very real if people buy into this idea of nudity being somehow a "fate worse than death" and will follow you your entire life and cause you to be rejected by society and result in the ruination of your entire life. Of course this is only true if you buy into the idea that nudity is somehow powerful enough to actually do those things....

[Marat]

I think the original Biblical sense of the nudity and then the shame of Adam and Eve over their nakedness was that as they become more morally sophisticated after eating of the the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they became capable of understanding shame and so adopted clothing. I.e., metaphorically, civilization brings both knowledge and awareness of self, and with awareness of self comes shame, and with that the concern about good and evil, salvation and sin. In its own way, the Old Testament offers an interesting, condensed, mythological version of historical anthropology.

 

Modern clothing seems important for reasons other than temperature control, since even in extremely hot climates people still feel the need to wear clothes. I lived almost right on the Equator for a while and few people were willing to go around in anything less than short pants and thongs, and females also always wore shirts.

 

A more curious case is that of true primitive tribespeople, among whom the males still wear a codpiece, even though they are otherwise nearly naked. What is this for? Are they hiding their shame, avoiding accidental sexual stimulation, or trying to protect themselves from injury?

[Moontanman]

I think the original Biblical sense of the nudity and then the shame of Adam and Eve over their nakedness was that as they become more morally sophisticated after eating of the the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they became capable of understanding shame and so adopted clothing. I.e., metaphorically, civilization brings both knowledge and awareness of self, and with awareness of self comes shame, and with that the concern about good and evil, salvation and sin. In its own way, the Old Testament offers an interesting, condensed, mythological version of historical anthropology.

 

Modern clothing seems important for reasons other than temperature control, since even in extremely hot climates people still feel the need to wear clothes. I lived almost right on the Equator for a while and few people were willing to go around in anything less than short pants and thongs, and females also always wore shirts.

 

A more curious case is that of true primitive tribespeople, among whom the males still wear a codpiece, even though they are otherwise nearly naked. What is this for? Are they hiding their shame, avoiding accidental sexual stimulation, or trying to protect themselves from injury?

 

 

Actually I think the er ah cod piece is designed to attract attention to the er ah cod by making the er ah cod look bigger and stand out COD

[rktpro]

 

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

 

 

 

Because,

It would attract children of opposite sex towards something they shouldn't see at their age.

It would ruin the cloth industry and Industrial Revolution will die. This will create unemployment and riots. An attack on Jeans can be less fatal than an attack on naked skin.

[Mr Skeptic]

Clothing probably also relates to our species' tendency towards hiding our reproductive cycle and sexual relations.

[lemur]

Clothing probably also relates to our species' tendency towards hiding our reproductive cycle and sexual relations.

I don't think humans are unique in this. Sexual activities make you more vulnerable to attack than when all your energy is free to spend protecting and defending. Still, I don't think this is the main reason for hiding nudity and sex. I think it has more to do with control and power over sex itself, who gets access to whom/what when and how.

 

 

 

[Marat]

Perhaps, as Mr. Sceptic suggests, clothing is essentially an extension of most species' desire to retreat and hide for protection against enemies during its reproductive processes. We then subconsciously extend this urge to protect ourselves in a nest during sex and childbirth by wearing clothes to cover up all the parts related to these activities, thus carrying our protective nest with us, at least symbolically.

 

Society may also find male arousal threatening, and so the less the public can see of it the better. It is actually a criminal act of public indecency in some jurisdictions for a male to be seen in public fully clothed but with an obvious erection under his trousers. Since this act can be involuntary, it is a crime of strict liability which does not require criminal intention. Of course it is also no longer regarded as an act of public indecency for women to show their breasts in public while nursing, so we may wonder why the voluntary choice of a woman to do something disturbing the public environment is legalized while the involuntary act of a man which similarly disturbs the public environment is criminalized.

[imatfaal]

Where on earth is it a strict liability offence to have an erection in public? Is it a dead letter that has been on the statute books for centuries?

[Moontanman]

Because,

It would attract children of opposite sex towards something they shouldn't see at their age.

 

What do you base this assertion on?

 

It would ruin the cloth industry and Industrial Revolution will die. This will create unemployment and riots. An attack on Jeans can be less fatal than an attack on naked skin.

 

 

It is quite true that if everyone suddenly dispensed with clothing under any circumstances that allowed it would have a significant impact on the world economy.

[rktpro]

What do you base this assertion on?

 

 

On the current pattern of society and on the behaviour, both physical and mental, of human beings.

[ydoaPs]

So, you're basing your generalization on our sexually repressed culture despite the existence of other cultures which have no such problems.

[Athena]

Technically, human's had to sin against God to become clothed and were initially intended to be nude.

 

Why don't we follow God's initial intentions and be nude?

 

 

 

Really bad idea. In the winter it is too cold, and year round, the sun's rays are very damaging, but unfortunately, we don't realize this until we begin experiencing the damage caused by the sun many years later.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Athena

[Moontanman]

On the current pattern of society and on the behaviour, both physical and mental, of human beings.

 

 

 

Being a nudist pretty much falsifies this quite easily, children of nudists do not turn out any different than children of non nudists other than being more likely to be nudists as well.

 

BTW, of all things that require clothing of some sort, swimming would seem to be the most silly of them all....

Edited May 31, 2011 by Moontanman