Extracting Kalium from KNO3

[Aspirin]

Is it possible.

[budullewraagh]

well, liquid ammonia works wonders with reducing alkali metals, so it could potentially work with alkali salts. high temperature reduction with finely powdered aluminum would also probably work, although im not sure it would work so well with a nitrate, as it would more likely decompose too soon.

[Caustic]

Whats Kalium? do you mean potassium?

[YT2095]

kalium is the old name for potassium, just like Natrium is for Sodium. hence their Symbols K and Na

[Aspirin]

I Think that's it.

 

Let's keep it simple.

It's the (K) element in the periodic table of elements.

 

LP

[Aspirin]

So is there a way to get it out of KNO3.

I read Bud's post but it's a bit to complicated for me.

As you may know i'm not american or English and you all have your

special names for chemicals.

 

So please if you can keep it simple.

If you can, if not i'll try to understand it

[Sorcerer]

well, liquid ammonia works wonders with reducing alkali metals, so it could potentially work with alkali salts. high temperature reduction with finely powdered aluminum would also probably work, although im not sure it would work so well with a nitrate, as it would more likely decompose too soon.

 

So, this would produce Ammonium Nitrate and Potassium metal??? All I can think of is be sure to do it anhydrous or..... BOOM.

[Gilded]

K and Na are bitches when it comes to isolation. Same thing with rubidium and cesium, and just about every goddamn alkali metal. It's sad when you think of all the many fun uses they have.

 

"kalium is the old name for potassium, just like Natrium is for Sodium. hence their Symbols K and Na :)"

 

I think kalium/natrium is used in just about every other EU country except UK. You UK (and US) fellows seem to have something against the SI-system too.

[budullewraagh]

All I can think of is be sure to do it anhydrous or..... BOOM.

hence my stating it should be liquid ammonia.

 

ok let me try this again. i'll use chemical formulas so you will understand my chemical names.

 

add [math]NH_3[/math] liquid WITH NO [math]H_2O[/math] to an potassium salt [math]KNO_3 or KCl[/math] or others. it may work but i am not sure.

 

if you heat [math]K_2CO_3[/math] to very high temperatures (1500 celcius or more), you may be able to reduce it with finely divided Al or Fe.

[ed84c]

melt it like they do with salt to get Na, and do electrloysis. Use electrodes of carbon, and you should make CO2 N2 and K. This isnt as daft as it sounds, try either making a bonfire arrangement with big beefy bellows (can be done) or use that method they do to melt Fe for railway purposes.

[jsatan]

yeah that was what I was thinking, but I seen some try just salt first and this didnt work, at the rate in which the K is made its also reacts with the water in the air.

[ed84c]

make the area dry with something anhydrous. Do you have a fume cupboard handy? Im sure if you ask a teacher they'd be glad to oblige, especially as chemists seem to be a little mad . Try making H2 and O2 and using that it can get REALLY hot, or acetlyene and O2 in a welding place.

[budullewraagh]

i suggest you try the high temp reduction, as it could be interesting

[Von Klemmung]

In fact, many compounds have already been renamed internationally.

 

As an example, the ammonia ion is notorious for making AZIDES, like our good old nitrogen tri-iodide, which is now known as iodine AZIDE!

 

So, your ammonia gas, known to Danes as AmmoniAk (ammony-ACK!), has changed its name to the internationally-approved ...

 

TADAAAHH!!! AZAN! (or azane).

 

The naming system is called IUPAC (don't remember what stands for), but I for one am going to have a hard time readjusting.

 

---------

 

As an aside story, our brother country of Sweden still uses the words Syre (Shi-re), Syra (Shi-ra), Kväve (K-vay-veh) and Väte (vay-teh).

 

In English, that would be oxygen, acid, nitrogen and hydrogen.

 

The Germans are not far off with Stickstoff for nitrogen and Wasserstoff for hydrogen.

 

Both Stickstoff and Kväve has something to do with suffocating.

 

And Väte (moisture/wetness), Wasserstoff and hydrogen has a lot to do with water.

 

As I said before...

 

ENOUGH LINGUISTICS FOR NOW! (I could STILL go on)

[budullewraagh]

"As an example, the ammonia ion is notorious for making AZIDES, like our good old nitrogen tri-iodide, which is now known as iodine AZIDE!"

azide is the N3- anion. the ammonium cation is NH4+. nitrogen triiodide is not iodine azide. theoretically iodine azide would be IN3, where the formal charge on I is +1 and the azide is, as usual, -1. that just doesn't work.

 

 

"So, your ammonia gas, known to Danes as AmmoniAk (ammony-ACK!), has changed its name to the internationally-approved ...

 

TADAAAHH!!! AZAN! (or azane)."

 

no, because azane would involve N3-. ammonia is NH3. it's trivalent nitrogen. think of it: amine, ammonia, ammonium. they all refer to trivalent nitrogen with nitrogen.

[jdurg]

Correct. The term 'iodine azide' is 100%, completely incorrect. An azide has to have the N3 species in a -1 state. Hence sodium azide which is NaN3. So iodine azide would have to be IN3 according to the rules and that is just not going to happen.

[BenSon]

Hey, I'm considering doing the reduction buddwraaagh suggested, but im a little uncertain about how to get liquid ammonia...

Is there any other way apart from say pressurising the gas (something I don't have the rescources for).

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

you could cool it quite a bit. relative to other gases, it goes to liquid at a higher temperature. still, you don't want to work with liquid ammonia. ever work with the 3% solution? yeah, it doesnt smell good. also isn't too good with the lungs and all. now, that's a 3% solution so you're only experiencing the vapor from the vapor pressure so it's a very, very small amount you're exposed to. and it smells awful. think of what the gas would be like, thick as it rises from the liquid.

[BenSon]

I've used ammonia before but im not sure if the conc was 3% or not. I was thinking maybe collect some gas in a syringe and pressurise it, to react it with the KNO3. Then id only have to use very small amounts cutting down on the amount i breathed in but thats probably to hard...

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

ammonia wont react with potassium nitrate.

 

i was thinking of a really obscure method involving high temperature reduction with other metals

[BenSon]

add liquid NH3 WITH NO H2O to an potassium salt KNO3 or KCL or others. it may work but i am not sure.

 

where do the other metals come into play? sorry.

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

i was thinking of doing that at very high temps but they would exceed the decomp temp of NH3.

 

you could thermite potassium out with finely divided aluminum or magnesium under the right conditions.

 

yes i know this doesnt make sense what with reduction and oxidation potentials but i've read some accounts of this sort of thing actually working

[BenSon]

Oh ok also how would you get the NH3 as a liquid at high temps?... Anyway i've done thermite before but i'd think that the high temp would probably cause the K to react violently with the atmosphere even if no water was present.

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

well, thats why you do it under argon...

[BenSon]

I dont see any way i can do this reaction at home withour spending too much money

 

~Scott