The Seminal Origin of The Flying Saucer Idea

[markearthling]

Basically the question I asked myself was :

 

Where did the concept/idea / shape etc.. of the flying saucer originally

come from ( in popular culture )i.e. did we first see them in the sky

(as per the Keith Arnold sighting in 1947) ? [we also seem to assume that

because of their aerial performance capabilities that they must come from

space and be of extra terrestrial origin - They could actually be from earth

and simply be new technology [black technology being tested by governments - and there is much that they don't want us to know - this idea already has great credibility ].

 

I don't necessarily hold with the idea that UFOs/saucers are actually

extra or inter dimensional craft. I can't see any evidence for this claim

although there is much on the web covering this subject.

 

Some people suggest that this is the era/period when the term flying saucer first entered the public consciousness ( around 1947 especially after the so called

famous Roswell incidents).

 

In fact I believe that the idea of the flying saucer was around much earlier than this. Info over at Wikipedi suggests that the idea has existed in popular culture

and media since early last century ( around 1911 ) although I have not seen the evidence on this.

 

However, the following details the story of one american man named Ray Palmer

who was an early SCI FI magazine author and editor.

 

http://www.thejinn.n...ing_saucers.htm

 

Ray apparently got going with his SCI FI /saucer stories etc around 1938.

In fact many SCI FI magazines/fanzines carried saucer images and stories

which predate the period of the 1940s.

 

There was also a number of early flying saucer shaped flying vehicles

( mainly unsuccessful) which predate even the early work of

the SCI FI magazine world ( around 1929 for example a lenticular shaped

flying vehicle was invented ).

 

I have read references to various historical works/images from various places

around the world in other cultures and the claim is that earth has been visitted

before in the past, possibly by aliens in UFOs/saucers.

I have seen nothing that convinceingly or conclusively supports this claim.

 

My contention and claim is that it is more than likely that the idea/concept and

shape etc of the classic flying saucer was invented by a human mind here

on earth ( it didn't come from space ) and possibly early last century

( 1900s ).

 

However, I do keep an open mind on this subject and am open to the views of others on this.

 

One other interesting idea I have seen is that IF UFOs/saucers are flown by

extra terrestrials from space then perhaps they have been aware of our human

civilisation here on earth for quite a while.

 

The next question I ask myself is WHAT was happening in the world

around the period of 1947 which might prompt the beginning of many

UFO sightings/events/abductions etc.. ?

 

Answer we had just ended ( yes in 45 ) an extremely violent

world war where millions and millions were annihilated.

Then we dropped our atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

Would this have gotten anyones attention from space ?

 

Would ETs be interested/concerned about what we were getting up to

and maybe come here for a look see etc.. ?

 

There has been so much written about the extraterrestrial/UFO/abduction

etc phenomenon/scenarios that so many ideas have become very confused

and unfocussed and frankly the whole field of memes relating to these things

have begun to smack of the CRANK factor and lack credibility

on a wide basis.

 

I read Whitley Streibers Communion books in the 80s and saw the film

based on his work later. I was totally creeped out and I think

I was a little hooked by it all until later when the admissions

of fraud came out. Whitley and his supporters had simply done it for the

money folks, yep that's the truth.

( just like the Fire in the Sky / Snowflake story about the abduction

of a forestry worker in 1975 - it was shown by various investigators that

there were monetary incentives behind the motivation of involved individuals

to falsify their stories/claims ).

 

There has been so much hoaxing going on and almost a total lack

of conclusive evidence that less and less people bother to blink an eyelid

anymore when this subject comes up ( less and less people could care

about it at all ).

 

ETs from outer space ? Yeah Right ! Tell us another bed time story.

 

But I am interested in what anyone here thinks about it all.

 

 

[John Cuthber]

If this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_cloud

isn't part of the explanation then I would be rather surprised.

[Marat]

We had a thread discussing this topic of 'historical UFOs' before. UFOs have a very long history, especially if you count what seems most plausibly to be an account, in the Old Testament Book of Ezekial, from the confused perspective of a Bronze Age nomad, of an extraterrestrial spacecraft landing and depositing wheeled robots on the earth's surface. There is also a website on historical UFOs which records all the evidence, together with a Renaissance painting which shows what looks like a 1950s flying saucer in the sky to the right of the person whose portrait is presented. A statute in 14th century France even punished people for pestering the authorities with reports of 'ships flying in the sky.' I also contributed to the earlier science forum thread an account in a 17th century book I had found in the British Library of a 'barrel' with smoke pouring out of the back flying over a German city which discharged objects to attract a crowd, after which beings stepped out of the barrel and collected and quantified secretions from the people who had gathered around.

 

The modern revival of flying saucer stories began in the late 19th century in the U.S. with sightings of huge airships in the skies. These accounts seem to describe what we would today call blimps, but these stories were recorded before any actual blimps had been developed by Graf Zeppelin.

[JohnB]

The modern revival of flying saucer stories began in the late 19th century in the U.S. with sightings of huge airships in the skies. These accounts seem to describe what we would today call blimps, but these stories were recorded before any actual blimps had been developed by Graf Zeppelin.

 

Yes. Many of the accounts from the 19th Century even describe the craft as having propellors. The history of the UFO is quite fascinating.

 

For those who haven't read it Robert Silverbergs "Those who Watch" is an interesting take on why they might be here. Not one of his best books, but an entertaining light read.

[Moontanman]

I think it's important to point out that saucer shaped UFOs is just a subset of the group UFOs, most UFOs are not flying saucers.

[markearthling]

So JohnB are we saying that these early blimp like UFOs

with the propellors (??? maybe for atmospheric use yes )

actually flew here from space ?

(propellorz in space !)

 

 

OR

 

would it be more credible to say that someone on

earth was experimenting with/building

early blimp like aircraft which may have predated

what Graf Zeppelin did

(and they successfully kept it mostly

a secret apart from some sightings) ?

 

Hey there Moontanman ! Yes I agree.

[JohnB]

I'm not saying either.

 

People can only describe what they see in terms of their experience. What is unusual is that the descriptions are quite detailed although much of the detail can be added later in the mind or witness.

 

For example, in documentary I saw a while ago about the first Japanese raid on Darwin in WW II, one of the witnesses said that he heard the "click" as the bombs were let go. As the bombers were at 20,000 ft and bombs from that height are let go about 4 miles from the target it is impossible for him to have heard the latch let go. He wasn't untruthful and believed what he said, but his testimony was simply impossible. This detail was added later in his memory.

 

Similarly with very old accounts there are cultural and language difficulties. If a flying saucer landed in the Roman period and beings got out, how could this be described in the language of the times? Animals were split into two groups, "men" and "animals", there was no word for "Alien". The only words available for a vehicle that carries men were "chariot", "cart" and "ship". Carts are slow and chariots are fast so chariot would be the preferred term. So you would have "men" coming from a "flying chariot". Note also that the only things that flew in those days were birds because they had wings, it would not be surprising to find such a vehicle called a "winged chariot". Rather than a literal two wheeled vehicle with wings, the reference would mean "A fast flying vehicle that carries men".

 

The limitations of language always needs to be considered when discussing past accounts.

 

It is highly unlikely that there was somebody else building Zeps before the Count did. These things are huge and require a lot of industry to make. People would notice the 600 ft long thing being built.

Edited June 22, 2011 by JohnB

[Marat]

The section in Ezekiel where the arrival of what might be robots from a spacecraft illustrates the poverty of contemporary language in attempting to describe a complex mechanism. In fact, the dissonance between the linguistic resources of the observers and what we suppose they were reporting helps confirm that the sightings actually occurred in the distant past, rather than having been concocted today and made to seem historical.

 

Another reason why the blimp sightings over America in the 1890s were probably not actual blimp prototypes is that there would have been little motivation to keep that invention a secret, given the economic advantages and professional prestige for the first inventors becoming known. A possible alternative is that the U.S. government had made these blimps and was trying to keep them a secret while yet still testing them (the sightings were generally a night), but the slow development of the blimp and derigible by the U.S. after Graf Zeppelin's model became public suggests that the U.S. could not have had a secret program a decade earlier.

 

There's a Renaissance painting with a clear illustration of a modern flying saucer floating in space near the Virgin Mary's head, but whether this was meant to depict something the artist had actually seen flying in the sky or was some abstract decoration cannot be determined now. Better examples are actual written reports, such as that of the flying barrel emiting smoke in the 17th century and sending out 'angels' to collect and measure fluid samples from the people below.