My pet logical argument

[megachirops]

I am practicing my ability to come up with logical arguments. so any feedback on this one would be much appreciated.

1). God couldn't make the Universe while being inside it.

2).Therefore God had to be outside it.

3).Nothing can exist outside the Universe, therefore God doesn't exist.

Clarification will be provided upon request. Thanks!

[Stefan-CoA]

Point 3 assumes that nothing can exist outside of the universe. How do you know this? But point one and two are sound. Maybe if you split point 3 into two separate points it would follow a bit better, but it still stands on the assumption that nothing exists outside of the known universe.

[mooeypoo]

Point 3 assumes that nothing can exist outside of the universe. How do you know this? But point one and two are sound. Maybe if you split point 3 into two separate points it would follow a bit better, but it still stands on the assumption that nothing exists outside of the known universe.

 

I am not entirely sure about my own point here (I guess that's *my* practice ) but point 2 seems a bit shaky to me. Surely, God could have created the Universe around himself.

 

No?

[imatfaal]

I am not entirely sure about my own point here (I guess that's *my* practice ) but point 2 seems a bit shaky to me. Surely, God could have created the Universe around himself.

 

No?

 

I think I agree with you - it seems a little wierd to posit a supernatural omnipotent being who is beyond our understanding and then constrain his/her actions.

[Yoseph]

Maybe try a different topic, there isn't much logic when talking about god...

[John Cuthber]

I built a mock-up igloo from inside it, why couldn't God do the same with the universe?

So it seems points 1 and 2 are flaky.

[Leader Bee]

I built a mock-up igloo from inside it, why couldn't God do the same with the universe?

So it seems points 1 and 2 are flaky.

 

This is non sequitur logic.

 

"if A is true then B must also be true"?

 

This is a fallacy in itself??? Assumptions are being made without any evidence.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Leader Bee

[mooeypoo]

This is non sequitur logic.

 

"if A is true then B must also be true"?

 

This is a fallacy in itself??? Assumptions are being made without any evidence.

 

Yes, sure, but I think the problem is more about the immediate assumption made in the OP's #2 that "Therefore God has to be outside of it". The "therefore" is rendered moot once you showed a single valid exception... the point is that it's not a valid conclusion to #1.

 

~mooey

[Marqq]

I am practicing my ability to come up with logical arguments. so any feedback on this one would be much appreciated.

1). God couldn't make the Universe while being inside it.

2).Therefore God had to be outside it.

3).Nothing can exist outside the Universe, therefore God doesn't exist.

Clarification will be provided upon request. Thanks!

 

I think your main issue is that you're not including the qualifiers and one definition.

 

D). The Universe is all that is, and includes everything that is known to us and not known to us.

1). Nothing can exist or act from within a place that doesn't exist, having inherited the property of non-existence.

• (ex. Phil works at the WalMart on the moon. He says, "Hi.")

2). Without existing in some place, a thing does not exist [acr=qualifier]in relation to any place that exists[/acr].

• (ex. The construction workers that built the WalMart on the moon are nowhere to be found. So where do we send their checks?)

C1). [acr=qualifier]Because the Universe includes everything that exists[/acr], nothing can or has ever existed outside the Universe.

• (ex. The WalMart on the moon has never had customers...)

3). A thing must exist before affecting change. (This one is actually debatable due to mass assumptions about God creating itself.)

• (ex. Phil, the guy that works at the WalMart on the moon, knocked up my sister!)

C2). The Universe was not created by anything that exists. OR The Universe was not created.

• (ex. But there is no WalMart on the moon.)

C3). God, [acr=qualifier]as defined by most religions[/acr], does not exist.

• (ex. I'm voiding my check to the construction crew...and I'm having a talk with my sister.)

 

The examples were really just for fun, but I hope they help illustrate the argument... Note that it all crumbles depending on your interpretation of religious texts.