New Stonehenge is about Science Theory?

[jbor]

Stonehenge is aligned to the summer solstice sunrise ( probably amongst many other objects of the heavens ) . Is it designed to be in alignment ?

 

There's two ways of looking at that: Most experts seem to think it's aligned to the Winter Solstice rather than Summer: There is evidence that the majority of larger feasts (usually pork from memory) were held in the Winter. But Stonehenge isn't strictly aligned to either (it's a little out rotationally).

 

The alignment of Stonehenge also fits with the original thread: There's a new video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2YXOsdsR4I

 

Where's the error in this reasoning? It's got to be something dead obvious.

[JohnB]

Hal, you're making good points.

 

The thing not to forget is that "religions" of the era of Stonehenge are not like religions now. Religions then were naturistic or shamanistic. Consequently the alignment of structures will conform to actual events in the physical world for physical reasons, rather than for "religious" reasons. Shamanistic thought relies on the cycles of nature which for a primitive society are extremely important as they guide crop plantings, etc.

 

Consequently you will find the orientations to be based on Solstices and Eqinoxes or stars, rather than a simple North, South, East, West configuration.

 

A good example is the use of Sirius by the Egyptians. Sirius drops below the horizon for 70 days each year and the rising of Sirius heralds the flooding of the Nile. As the flood was vital for the agricultural survival of the society this rising was incredibly important. Started as a shamanistic observation of the real world it of course later became incorporated with the various Gods and Goddesses of Egypt and gained more "religious" overtones.

 

Shamanistic thought is based on observation of the real world, if that is a religion, then as Hal said, "Physics is your religion".

 

I think the theory expressed in the vids is interesting, but the obvious question is "Why?" What is the point of somehing that mimics the sun in the sky each day? It has no predictive power, it can't predict an eclipse for example. The concept seems a great waste of time and effort for little gain. Societies back then would build monuments for a long term purpose, even the mounds, but there had to be a reason. Tracking the sun doesn't seem to me to reason enough for all the work.

 

A problem with the theory is the idea of "mirrors". AFAIK C14 puts the construction of Stonehenge at starting around 3,000 BCE. The earliest mirrors we know of are made of polished bronze and bronze wasn't in use until after 2,000 BCE. Seems odd to be building something that won't work for 1,000 years until mirrors are invented.

[jbor]

The concept seems a great waste of time and effort for little gain. Societies back then would build monuments for a long term purpose, even the mounds, but there had to be a reason. Tracking the sun doesn't seem to me to reason enough for all the work.

 

That's a good point. The reasons I've seen posted as possible uses are proof of concept of the heavens (in which case the Neolliths were basically technology nerds) and high grade metal purification in very small quantities and.. I've forgotten what else, but there was something else.

 

A problem with the theory is the idea of "mirrors". AFAIK C14 puts the construction of Stonehenge at starting around 3,000 BCE. The earliest mirrors we know of are made of polished bronze and bronze wasn't in use until after 2,000 BCE. Seems odd to be building something that won't work for 1,000 years until mirrors are invented.

 

Aye. But the problem with the argument is that mirrors have been found dating back to about 6000BC, and copper mirror-like disks to 5000BC, so tin mirrors in a tin rich area doesn't seem impossible. However, the theory become elusively crafty at this point because pure tin does not survive for the archaeological record in cold climates because of tin pest (whereas bronze does survive). So it can't be proven one way or the other.

[JohnB]

jbor, aren't the stones from some distance away? Like about 80 miles? A project like that would require more than just nerds. I think I'm having trouble because I can't see the point. An observatory of the most basic type allows for predictions, eclipses and what not, into the future. This ability would enhance a Shamanistic religion. But just mirroring the movement of the sun each day?

 

I've actually just had a nasty thought. In the vids the mirrors are used to light a ball. What if a cult of Sun worshippers used it to light a gibbet instead? Since it would be above the cicle, the watching crowd would get to see the heretic/criminal burned to death by the power of the holy Sun. A grusome form of public execution is just the sort of thing that a society would put effort into in favour of their God.

 

Concerning early mirrors. Do you have some reference for the existence of mirrors in Britain back then? This isn't my usual period for reading about, so some more background info would be appreciated.

[Hal.]

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Edited July 14, 2011 by Hal.

[jbor]

Do you have some reference for the existence of mirrors in Britain back then? This isn't my usual period for reading about, so some more background info would be appreciated.

 

No, and I think that this may well be the flaw! The only evidence for mirrors back in those days appears to be in places other than Britain:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror#History

 

I suppose that you could argue that mirrors might have existed. But without evidence, it becomes pure conjecture?

 

I've actually just had a nasty thought. In the vids the mirrors are used to light a ball. What if a cult of Sun worshippers used it to light a gibbet instead? Since it would be above the cicle, the watching crowd would get to see the heretic/criminal burned to death by the power of the holy Sun. A grusome form of public execution is just the sort of thing that a society would put effort into in favour of their God.

 

That's a thought. Seems a lot of effort just to burn a few crims though? And why send them up? Wouldn't it be better to turn it round the other way so that they went down to hell?

[Hal.]

jbor , when a person stands at the centre of the henge looking towards the midsummer sunrise position , are there two alignment events separated by 47 degrees on their left and also two alignment events separated by 47 degrees on their right ?

 

 

[jbor]

jbor , when a person stands at the centre of the henge looking towards the midsummer sunrise position , are there two alignment events separated by 47 degrees on their left and also two alignment events separated by 47 degrees on their right ?

 

I have no idea! Stonehenge points to the North-East, about 50 degrees from North. It roughly, but not exactly, lines up with the summer Solstice rise and also, by coincidence, with the Winter Solstice set.

 

Why 47 degrees? Is that the angle of the Avenue? (I know that the Avenue alignment is slightly different to the monument)

[Sitemaster]

Thanks. In laymans's language, what is the simplest argument to refute the coincidences that are shown?

 

 

 

There's no apparent evidence that it ever was built as a complete a circle: The section to the South West (at the back of the Great Trilithon) is generally assumed to have existed. It is a good logical assumption though:

 

http://en.wikipedia....:Stone_Plan.jpg

 

But there is evidence that the sarsen Circle was complete, here it is: http://www.solvingstonehenge.co.uk/page7.html

[jbor]

But there is evidence that the sarsen Circle was complete,

 

Shows that there may have been an intention to build it out?