Morbid obesity , causes

[amanda more]

 

 

Here is my question.

 

I would like to live off this product and eat it in the aforementioned manner. Is there any hope?

 

All I ask is to experience a complete healthy life that is totally free of any physical disability -- such as stroke, heart-attack,

blindness, paralysis, etc.

 

Please tell me I'm not asking for too much.

 

 

Thanks,

 

GX

 

Well, this product gets made and alas. Are any ingredients sourced from a rainy part of California and then discover Iodine 131. Food does not cause traffic accidents. There will always be risk.

 

 

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

I'm just curious to know opinions, and bear with me because I may just be ignorant, But It stands to reason for me that the only possible cause of morbid obesity is consuming too many calories, If you don't put somthing in your body cannot very well produce fat. I just have a few friends who fit in this category and have heard everything from underlying genetic conditions to "I don't eat that much" etc.

 

I completely understand food addiction, or gorging etc. but if these people cannot acknowledge to themselves that the cause is over indulgence then they're not going to get healthy. Just my opinion. What is yours?

 

The cause is excess calories absorbed over calories used.

 

The causes of the cause varies with every individual.

[Green Xenon]

There will always be risk.

 

True. However, I want to be as much in shape as possible. That's why I need my food product.

[amanda more]

True. However, I want to be as much in shape as possible. That's why I need my food product.

 

Didn't that always seem to be a rather unfortunate aspect in science fiction that people were forced to eat "pill food."

 

Let's see if we could cost out your food substance. Any protein costs. It would be doable for the 1800 calories of a middle aged female but prohibitive for the 4800 calories of an active 15 year old. Parenteral nutrition today is very, very expensive.

 

It is essentially some kind of canned product and would be subject to recalls that seem to happen from time to time. Those who go for "natural" need to consider the sprouts lesson from Germany. Fresh does have a danger that cooked does not. Pathogens are not nontrivial aspects of life.

 

Food is a huge cost for the majority of people on the earth.

 

 

 

[Marat]

I agree. The danger of e coli and other pathogens in organic food, free range chickens and eggs, etc., probably outweighs the benefits. Now that the health status of numerous Egyptian mummies has been studied, we know that people living exclusively on the essentially natural food of that era (except for Egyptian beer, which is an example of an early processed food) had very poor health from the parasites and grinding down of the tooth surfaces from eating stone-milled bread.

[Green Xenon]

I agree. The danger of e coli and other pathogens in organic food, free range chickens and eggs, etc., probably outweighs the benefits. Now that the health status of numerous Egyptian mummies has been studied, we know that people living exclusively on the essentially natural food of that era (except for Egyptian beer, which is an example of an early processed food) had very poor health from the parasites and grinding down of the tooth surfaces from eating stone-milled bread.

 

 

I'm convinced that the benefits of the hypothetical food product I discussed outweigh the drawbacks sufficiently that I'm willing to live off it.

[amanda more]

I'm convinced that the benefits of the hypothetical food product I discussed outweigh the drawbacks sufficiently that I'm willing to live off it.

 

Well we all make personal choices. Just because a technology is available to do something doesn't mean there is a reason to do it.

 

I wonder how many technological innovations ever get much science regarding benefits behind them?

 

 

 

[Green Xenon]

Well we all make personal choices. Just because a technology is available to do something doesn't mean there is a reason to do it.

 

I wonder how many technological innovations ever get much science regarding benefits behind them?

 

 

It is extremely logical to make this product and sell it [at a reasonable price] to health-conscious consumers -- like me. This product is the best food for combating obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and hypertension.

[Realitycheck]

This reminds me of the food they give people on life support, uggh. There's something to be said about differentiation - eating from a variety of different sources, cramming it all into a mega shake sounds so limiting no matter how you shake it, especially when you factor in the multitude of not so essential nutrients, like bioflavonoids and so forth, which seem to lose their effectiveness when they are processed.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Realitycheck

[Green Xenon]

This reminds me of the food they give people on life support, uggh. There's something to be said about differentiation - eating from a variety of different sources, cramming it all into a mega shake sounds so limiting no matter how you shake it, especially when you factor in the multitude of not so essential nutrients, like bioflavonoids and so forth, which seem to lose their effectiveness when they are processed.

 

The processing does not involved the addition of any substances other than drinking water, potassium ions, and beneficial/essential microbes.

[amanda more]

The processing does not involved the addition of any substances other than drinking water, potassium ions, and beneficial/essential microbes.

 

 

 

I think that there seems to be a big misunderstanding regarding science and nutrition. On a news segment, this one old guy only ate hot dogs and had lived on them for years. So idiosyncratic diet may not be immediately life threatening. Just don't even try to envision that what you describe has any strong support in science. You can really do what you want.

 

I recently met a 40year old who had been vegan for ten years. She said she felt great until she didn't. Had no B12 for those years.

 

The impression I got is that she expects to have permanent difficulty.

 

Science knows about that one but can't possibly know them all. At least not now. So I am confidant in saying there is no double blind scientific study that has proven a substance that you surmise would be of benefit to health in any way. If you hate the taste so you don't eat much of it then you could lose weight. But you could go on a hot dog diet and lose weight.

 

 

[Guest Loveyourbody008]

A lack of energy balance most often causes overweight and obesity. Energy balance means that your energy IN equals your energy OUT.

 

Energy IN is the amount of energy or calories you get from food and drinks. Energy OUT is the amount of energy your body uses for things like breathing, digesting, and being physically active.

 

To maintain a healthy weight, your energy IN and OUT don't have to balance exactly every day. It's the balance over time that helps you maintain a healthy weight.

 

The same amount of energy IN and energy OUT over time = weight stays the same

More energy IN than energy OUT over time = weight gain

More energy OUT than energy IN over time = weight loss

Overweight and obesity happen over time when you take in more calories than you use.

 

high-blood-pressure

[amanda more]

A lack of energy balance most often causes overweight and obesity. Energy balance means that your energy IN equals your energy OUT.

 

Energy IN is the amount of energy or calories you get from food and drinks. Energy OUT is the amount of energy your body uses for things like breathing, digesting, and being physically active.

 

To maintain a healthy weight, your energy IN and OUT don't have to balance exactly every day. It's the balance over time that helps you maintain a healthy weight.

 

The same amount of energy IN and energy OUT over time = weight stays the same

More energy IN than energy OUT over time = weight gain

More energy OUT than energy IN over time = weight loss

Overweight and obesity happen over time when you take in more calories than you use.

 

high-blood-pressure

 

This is certainly old school stuff and many today do say this. Then why would it be possible that sleeping more means thinner people? At first look surely sleeping uses less calories?

 

 

 

[Realitycheck]

A lack of energy balance most often causes overweight and obesity. Energy balance means that your energy IN equals your energy OUT.

 

Energy IN is the amount of energy or calories you get from food and drinks. Energy OUT is the amount of energy your body uses for things like breathing, digesting, and being physically active.

 

To maintain a healthy weight, your energy IN and OUT don't have to balance exactly every day. It's the balance over time that helps you maintain a healthy weight.

 

The same amount of energy IN and energy OUT over time = weight stays the same

More energy IN than energy OUT over time = weight gain

More energy OUT than energy IN over time = weight loss

Overweight and obesity happen over time when you take in more calories than you use.

 

high-blood-pressure

You might want to read up on this little thing called insulin resistance. Weight loss is not necessarily so simple for everybody.

[random]

I agree. The danger of e coli and other pathogens in organic food, free range chickens and eggs, etc., probably outweighs the benefits. Now that the health status of numerous Egyptian mummies has been studied, we know that people living exclusively on the essentially natural food of that era (except for Egyptian beer, which is an example of an early processed food) had very poor health from the parasites and grinding down of the tooth surfaces from eating stone-milled bread.

 

 

Sorry Marat I am just a little peeved at your comment about free range chickens being less healthy. Ever been to a chicken house? Ever look at the independent studies? Your a victim of propaganda. free range contains substantially less bacteria requires less antibiotics to keep the birds healthy, has a lower mortality rate, the meat has less fat and higher protein etc. etc. As for your statements about organic........I don't know any organic farmers who dump sewer sludge or uncomposted manure on their vegetables but I know alot of conventional farmers who do. Food is big business and the big players have the cash to keep you in the dark.

 

That's my rant for today please don't be a victim of the "it must be true I saw it on T.V." mentality

[Green Xenon]

I think that there seems to be a big misunderstanding regarding science and nutrition. On a news segment, this one old guy only ate hot dogs and had lived on them for years. So idiosyncratic diet may not be immediately life threatening. Just don't even try to envision that what you describe has any strong support in science. You can really do what you want.

 

I recently met a 40year old who had been vegan for ten years. She said she felt great until she didn't. Had no B12 for those years.

 

The impression I got is that she expects to have permanent difficulty.

 

Science knows about that one but can't possibly know them all. At least not now. So I am confidant in saying there is no double blind scientific study that has proven a substance that you surmise would be of benefit to health in any way. If you hate the taste so you don't eat much of it then you could lose weight. But you could go on a hot dog diet and lose weight.

 

Quote from http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm :

 

"The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low. Non-animal sources include Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula or T-6635+ nutritional yeast (a little less than 1 Tablespoon supplies the adult RDA), and vitamin B12 fortified soymilk."

 

So let's add the nutritional yeast to the product -- this would classify as one of the "beneficial or essential microbes".

[random]

Quote from http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm :

 

"The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low. Non-animal sources include Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula or T-6635+ nutritional yeast (a little less than 1 Tablespoon supplies the adult RDA), and vitamin B12 fortified soymilk."

 

So let's add the nutritional yeast to the product -- this would classify as one of the "beneficial or essential microbes".

 

 

You should start a thread about your diet pills so those who know more about this sort of thing can find the post and respond. I for one can't see it being feasible however i heard about some operation that kills your taste buds r.e. if food doesn't have any taste your going to only consume it as fuel. Maybe a good pet project for you would be to go and collect all the supplements neccessary seperately such as protein drink, mineral supplements and vitamin supplements and consume the proper amounts as per a nutritional guide. My "guesstimate" is you feel like crap, your bowel movements are going to be bad (think peeing out your bum) your going to be constantly hungry (at least til your stomach shrinks) and I think as a hypothesis cause I'm no doctor, that your going to have severe stomach problems such as acid reflux , ulcers, and all around discomfort.

 

All in all it sounds like a horribly self destructive diet and in the name of science I'm behind you 100%

[amanda more]

You should start a thread about your diet pills so those who know more about this sort of thing can find the post and respond. I for one can't see it being feasible however i heard about some operation that kills your taste buds r.e. if food doesn't have any taste your going to only consume it as fuel. Maybe a good pet project for you would be to go and collect all the supplements neccessary seperately such as protein drink, mineral supplements and vitamin supplements and consume the proper amounts as per a nutritional guide. My "guesstimate" is you feel like crap, your bowel movements are going to be bad (think peeing out your bum) your going to be constantly hungry (at least til your stomach shrinks) and I think as a hypothesis cause I'm no doctor, that your going to have severe stomach problems such as acid reflux , ulcers, and all around discomfort.

 

All in all it sounds like a horribly self destructive diet and in the name of science I'm behind you 100%

 

Except this may be a case of someone who particularly enjoys the one person account over and above a scientific study. Even here he could have all the problems you mention and site them as benefits.

Huge corporations can't site real data showing two year effectiveness for weightloss. So they report how they all have now so much "energy."

The obesity epidemic is still actually intractable as far as I can see. Unless the 120,000 per person derivatives do crash (really off topic)

At that point even with huge resources, people will suddenly need food. That is one way to stop obesity.

 

 

 

 

[Green Xenon]

Except this may be a case of someone who particularly enjoys the one person account over and above a scientific study. Even here he could have all the problems you mention and site them as benefits

 

Life is full of compromises. I'd choose the aforementioned hypothetical product -- and it's drawbacks -- over obesity and it's associated illnesses.

 

My "guesstimate" is you feel like crap, your bowel movements are going to be bad (think peeing out your bum) your going to be constantly hungry (at least til your stomach shrinks) and I think as a hypothesis cause I'm no doctor, that your going to have severe stomach problems such as acid reflux , ulcers, and all around discomfort.

 

Acid reflux is improbable because the product will cause a rational amount of chlorine* deficiency, and hydrogen ion deficiency. In the new thread I started -- http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/58644-when-can-i-expect-to-live-off-this-extremely-healthy-product/ , you will see that hydronium ions are also removed. Let me add that the hydroniums are not directly filtered out but are deprotonated into H20 molecules and the resulting free-protons are removed.

 

This will likely cause the body to compensate by signaling the stomach to stop producing HCl as an emergency measure to prevent the the body from losing too much acidity and chlorine*.

 

*Chlorine exists in the body in the form of chloride ions which are necessary in trace amounts for certain body functions.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Green Xenon

[math-helper]

The main reason you picked is right and is over eating. But the genetic factor plays a role too.

[Green Xenon]

The main reason you picked is right and is over eating. But the genetic factor plays a role too.

 

The results of genetics can sometimes be overridden by environmental factors. In this case, drinking my favorite hypothetical product -- and abstaining from other foods -- will most likely eliminate body fat regardless of the consumer's genetics.

 

The only disadvantage of my product is that it will probably be too expensive for the producer to make and for the general public to purchase.

[John Cuthber]

The results of genetics can sometimes be overridden by environmental factors. In this case, drinking my favorite hypothetical product -- and abstaining from other foods -- will most likely eliminate body fat regardless of the consumer's genetics.

 

The only disadvantage of my product is that it will probably be too expensive for the producer to make and for the general public to purchase.

Nope.

It wouldn't.

People are different.

one very simple example is that I need less iron in my diet than a woman of the same age, weight etc.

So, in order for her to get enough iron she would have to consume a bit more of your product than I would.

If it provided me with enough calories then it would give her more than enough and she would get fat.

OK, you could do a "His" and Hers" version, but the same problem would still happen with other nutrients because of other factors.

My requirements for salt will depend on the losses by sweating. So does your "magic formula" provide the right amount for Summer or Winter (and what amount of exercise does it assume I get?)

It's time to drop the idea: it won't work.

 

And, BTW,

re.

"Any carbohydrate that raises blood sugar. These carbohydrates are bad for health."

the only source of energy that your brain can use is glucose.

If you don't eat it the body will make it anyway; if you eat lots the body will store it; initially as glycogen, then later as fat.

Your blood glucose level as you read this is almost certainly within 20% of 5 mMol/l no matter what you have been eating.

Edited July 24, 2011 by John Cuthber

[Green Xenon]

the only source of energy that your brain can use is glucose.

 

The brain adapts to glucose starvation by using ketones for energy.

[CharonY]

Continuous ketone formation (ketosis) is an undesirable condition, leading to a number of adverse health effects. There is a reason why glucose is the preferred energy source.

[Green Xenon]

People are different.

one very simple example is that I need less iron in my diet than a woman of the same age, weight etc.

So, in order for her to get enough iron she would have to consume a bit more of your product than I would.

If it provided me with enough calories then it would give her more than enough and she would get fat.

OK, you could do a "His" and Hers" version, but the same problem would still happen with other nutrients because of other factors.

My requirements for salt will depend on the losses by sweating. So does your "magic formula" provide the right amount for Summer or Winter (and what amount of exercise does it assume I get?)

 

Different variations of the product can be made according to gender, climate, and amount/intensity of physical exercise of the consumer.

 

Continuous ketone formation (ketosis) is an undesirable condition, leading to a number of adverse health effects. There is a reason why glucose is the preferred energy source.

 

Ketosis would normally cause undesirable effects through by causing the body to become too acidic for ideal health. However, this issue is addressed by altering my product so that it's acidity is sufficiently decreased and the alkalinity is sufficiently increased such that acidosis is prevented.