dragonstar57 Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 dragonstar57 , I don't know what I can say to continue the conversation or even if further explanation is needed . There is another thread over in the Chemistry section called ' to melt or not to melt ' , have a read if it interests you . I'm not trying to be arrogant or rude , just as you would like , no repetition . I was merely commenting that the quality of discussion was suffering by the repetition and was attempting to lead the conversation into some new territory. it was starting to be a ya'huh na'huh lvl debate and i was concerned about possible admin closing of this thread
Hal. Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 If the position of a dot was to be argued for 6 months and finally it's position was correct , I would be happy the argument was well worthwhile .
John Cuthber Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 The problem is when, after 5 months, you have not realised that you are talking about different dots.
Hal. Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 I see the dots , they are clear to me , do you see more than one ? , is my dot clear to you ?
Ophiolite Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 it was starting to be a ya'huh na'huh lvl debate and i was concerned about possible admin closing of this thread I'm concerned that they won't close it. 1
John Cuthber Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I'm concerned that they won't close it. LOL -1
Hal. Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 It's very easy to see the pattern when those who make it have done so plentifully before .
HerpetologyFangirl Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I just love scientific logic. Being a nerd is such fun. :-D You guys sound like Sheldon, Leonard, Wolowitz, and Koothrappali having an argument. Although a couple of you sound like Penny. X-D This is better than TV. 1
dragonstar57 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 hal could you please explain what is happening to the molecules as an object "hals melts" but is incapable of returning to it's original state?
Hal. Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 dragonstar57 , do you think I say that an object which has been hal.'s melted is incapable of returning to it's original state ?
dragonstar57 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) dragonstar57 , do you think I say that an object which has been hal.'s melted is incapable of returning to it's original state ? I think you say that to be hal's melted it does not have to be able to return to it's original state so therefore i was asking for an example of hal's melt where it is not capable of returning to it's original state Edited September 23, 2011 by dragonstar57
Hal. Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 dragonstar57 , I don't say that materials that are hal.'s melted can't return to their original state , hal.'s melting has nothing to do with the reverse process , whether something is hal.'s melted would be decided upon based on evidence which would not involve anything to do with the reversible process . That is the qualification of independence of reversibility which is not the same thing as a qualification that accomplishment of reversibility is not possible . I am not placing a condition of reversibility to decide whether something is hal.'s melted , that is simple . That doesn't mean you can't reverse the process . That means it doesn't matter whether you can or can't , hal.'s melting will be decided upon independently of whether you can or can't .
dragonstar57 Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 dragonstar57 , I don't say that materials that are hal.'s melted can't return to their original state , hal.'s melting has nothing to do with the reverse process , whether something is hal.'s melted would be decided upon based on evidence which would not involve anything to do with the reversible process . That is the qualification of independence of reversibility which is not the same thing as a qualification that accomplishment of reversibility is not possible . I am not placing a condition of reversibility to decide whether something is hal.'s melted , that is simple . That doesn't mean you can't reverse the process . That means it doesn't matter whether you can or can't , hal.'s melting will be decided upon independently of whether you can or can't . ...you said that they don't need to be able to return to their original state.so what would be an example of something melting without being able to return to it's original state? if you say "dogs are a four legged animal which may or may not bark" and i say "name a example of a dog that does not bark" i am not saying you are claiming that all dogs do not bark.
Hal. Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 dragonstar57 , I do think you understand the Hal.'s melting viewpoint , you couldn't question like this otherwise . I think you realise that not needing to be able to return to an original state and needing to not be able to return to an original state are different things . The former doesn't impose a condition which may or may not be attainable whereas the latter imposes a condition which must . Maybe there are materials which can't return to their original state , would you like to suggest such ? If you look at melting and freezing as a journey like a return train trip from New York to Chicago to New York , Hal.'s melting will describe the journey from New York to Chicago . It is simple .
CaptainPanic Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 If you look at melting and freezing as a journey like a return train trip from New York to Chicago to New York , Hal.'s melting will describe the journey from New York to Chicago . It is simple . ... and it does not distinguish whether the passenger dies when the plane crashes at Chicago O'hare airport, or arrives safely.
Ophiolite Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Hal, would you explain again why there is any advantage in introducing a term whose meaning conflcits with the well established meaning of melting and which seems to offer no benefits whatsoever?
Hal. Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 ... and it does not distinguish whether the passenger dies when the plane crashes at Chicago O'hare airport, or arrives safely. Hal, would you explain again why there is any advantage in introducing a term whose meaning conflcits with the well established meaning of melting and which seems to offer no benefits whatsoever? Ophiolite , I'm not trying to tear down the well established scientific principles of melting , I have my viewpoint of what happens to objects , I think there is enough information to describe the viewpoint , if you would like to use the term Hal.'s melting , do . Try to be careful not to attribute viewpoints to me which aren't mine .
CaptainPanic Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) [...] if you would like to use the term Hal.'s melting , do .[...] The main problem that I have with this, is that there is really no need for an additional name. All known phenomenons of a solid turning into a liquid already have a name (liquifying, melting, condensing, smelting, dissolving, etc.). Edited September 28, 2011 by CaptainPanic
Hal. Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 CaptainPanic , you are arguing with yourself , you introduced the term , I have the viewpoint it applies to , I have explained it , it is melting .
Ophiolite Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Try to be careful not to attribute viewpoints to me which aren't mine . It is precisely because I wish to avoid attributing viewpoints to you, that you might not actually hold, that I have asked you to explain what benefits could possibly be derived from using your definition of melting. Will you please provide that explanation now.
CaptainPanic Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 CaptainPanic , you are arguing with yourself , you introduced the term , I have the viewpoint it applies to , I have explained it , it is melting . I am indeed arguing with myself. I shouldn't have called it "Hal's Melting". I should have said that what you describe is commonly called liquifying. And you're not allowed to have a "different viewpoint" on something for which there is a clear definition. It's like a law. You must abide the law.
Hal. Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Ophiolite , I'm describing melting , I never claimed anything other than to be describing melting , if you see benefits and would like to use the term for the viewpoint , do so . CaptainPanic , What I describe is called melting . I will choose to have as many viewpoints as I like .
CaptainPanic Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Ophiolite , I'm describing melting , I never claimed anything other than to be describing melting , if you see benefits and would like to use the term for the viewpoint , do so . CaptainPanic , What I describe is called melting . I will choose to have as many viewpoints as I like . You can have your viewpoints, sure. Nobody can force you to think in a particular way. But since everybody else is happy with the existing definitions, and we all refuse to use your viewpoints, don't you think it's easier to use the conventional definitions in your communications to the rest of the world??
Ophiolite Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 No. As has been repeatedly pointed out to you melting is a reversible process. You wish to apply the term melting to some processes that are not reversible. That is an incorrect application of the term. what do you find so difficult to understand about this? 1
Hal. Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 CaptainPanic , If you understand the viewpoint I have then there is no confusion . I understand the conventional definition dependence on reversibility for it's proof . If you ever melt something and wish to describe this as melting with no reference to it's proof which is dependent on reversibility then you will have something in common with me , Hal . Until then I wish you luck in the scientific community . Ophiolite , you don't know what you are talking about .
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