jdurg Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Erm... YEAH! and then some! I must STRONGLY disagree with you here on this one. Nitrogen trichloride is far more stable than nitrogen triiodide is. MUCH more stable. As you move down the column of halogens, the stability of the nitrogen trihalide dramatically drops off. Nitrogen trifluoride is perfectly stable and fairly safe to work with. Nitrogen trichloride will exist as an oily yellow liquid, but is quite unstable and likely to blow up if agitated. (Though it can be transported from one container to another, I'll let you do that). Nitrogen tribromide is VERY unstable and I don't even think it will exist long enough to be observed before blowing up. Nitrogen triiodide is the most unstable of them all, and if it weren't for the fact that it forms an adduct with ammonia when wet, I don't think it would ever form at all. Looking at the steric hinderance of the nitrogen trihalide molecules, it makes perfect sense as to why they become more and more unstable as you move down the column. The halogen atoms simply become too big to hang around near that one solitary nitrogen atom. That's why they go boom. Electronegativity wise, I also think they become more unstable as you move down the group. So in terms of stability, nitrogen trichloride is far more stable than nitrogen triiodide is. Though "stable" is all relative since even nitrogen trichloride can be considered "very" unstable. So this comparison is like comparing being shot in the head by a magnum or being shot in the head by a rifle. While one may be more powerful than the other, either way you're dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 the vapors of it detonate spontaniously, I consider that unstable I`ve seen (and made) many an electolytic vessel explode by electolysing chlorides with nitrates, often you can get away with just a sharp *CRACK* sound, but any confinement (even a cardboard cover to avoid fizzing splashes) will destroy the lot! edit: this made be of interest to a few of you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A795611 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 what terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 "this made be of interest to a few of you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A795611" Crikey! I'm not even going to keep ammonia and bleach in the same house if I get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 funny thing is they forgot the thing that is (usually) produced in greatest quantity: chloramine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Well, chloramine isn't as potential hazards as for example pure chlorine gas or nitrogen trichloride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 actually chloramine is significantly more toxic than chlorine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 chloramine? not heard of that one before? Ammonium Chloride sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 chloramine: NH2Cl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Hmmm... at 1`st glance it almost looks reasonably stable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 stable but also much more toxic than diatomic chlorine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Doesn't chloramine bind the iron to hemoglobine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 well...... you could add water, heat to, say 75 celsius then pour off the water, then "boil" whatever dampness remains. that should remove all polar/ionic solutes. actually to be more accurate you could use sulfuric acid. as for nonpolar solutes, you may have to play around with various solvents. Okay how would I go about using sulfuric acid to do this exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 well, sulfur is mostly insoluble in water... so you just add water to your 90% sulfur, heat to make sure you get everything, mix it up a bit, then pour off the water and you are done with your ionic/polar solutes. another thing you could do is dissolve the sulfur in carbon disulfide, benzene or toluene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I was wondering if I could substitute Ammonium nitrate instead of Potassium nitrate to make BP, If so what would the ratio be, I have heard you don't even use Sulfur if you use Ammonium Nitrate. I also read somewhere that the you can use both AN and PN and Charcoal for BP, the ratio was something like 35AN 40PN and 14 Charcoal. If so can they be all mixed together with a ball mill with explosion? Thanks In Advance. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Suppose to be without explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I don't think ammonium nitrate works too well in a BP mix as it isn't so sensitive. It's better for other applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 What applications would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 like explosives!!!! [edit] and oxidation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 ammonium nitrate actually is quite poor for production of nitric acid from what i've heard anyway. not that it makes a difference considering im not going to be trying a nitric synth anytime soon. perhaps if and when i get a gas mask and i can do it in an oen field, but certainly not before then, lest i expose myself to highly toxic gases AGAIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 "lest i expose myself to highly toxic gases AGAIN" Yeah, by the time you turn 18 you're all swollen by H2S, Br2, Cl2 and such. ) "ammonium nitrate actually is quite poor for production of nitric acid from what i've heard anyway." You got that right. It's easier to use nitric acid to make ammonium nitrate than to use ammonium nitrate to make nitric acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 alkali nitrates are best for that what about alkaline earth nitrates? i haven't heard too much but supposedly calcium nitrate isn't too bad. ever heard of strontium nitrate being used? or barium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Don't know about calcium, but barium or strontium nitrate would probably work, but I don't think they are worth it as they're quite expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 to a degree. i had figured they would work well. calcium nitrate is actually used often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Duncan Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Hey can u find this stuff in the wild???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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