Why do men commit so many rape crimes?

[Mr Rayon]

Worldwide, why are so many rape crimes commited men as opposed to by women?

 

There was statistic somewhere saying that 95% of rape crimes in the US are commited by men. That presumably only leaves about 5% by women.

 

Could this in anyway suggest that men have a higher libido than say, women?

Or... are other reasons more likely for this alarming statistic?

 

What does everyone think?

Edited July 10, 2011 by Mr Rayon

[michel123456]

I understand the next 5% are animals.

 

Why are you questionning so much?

Are you working for a CIA conspiration?

[Marat]

Why are so many thefts committed by impoverished Blacks living in the inner cities? Because the power structure of society denies them what they need and should have as a matter of social justice -- that is, enough money to live a decent life and to have the necessary opportunities for self-development -- and then it also criminalizes their attempt to defy this power structure and take by force what they are illegitimately denied.

 

Similarly, so many rapes are committed by men because women withold their cooperation as sexual partners in order illegitimately to enhance their social power over men, even though in the natural state of the world there is sufficient sexual interest among both males and females, and they exist in sufficiently equal proportions, that everyone could be sexually fulfilled and happy all the time. But women are willing to create widespread sexual frustration, misery, and tension just to create an artificial power for themselves as governors of the artificial sex economy that they invent. This exploitation and power imbalance, like all such social moves, whether they be imbalances of wealth created by the rules of capitalism or racial power conjured up by the rules of racism or slavery, calls up a corresponding resentment in those mistreated, and the exploited and abused population lashes out with violence, whether in the form of Luddites smashing the machinery that put them out of work, Nat Turner murdering white slave holders in the Antebellum South, underpaid workers killing the Russian elite on their gigantic estates in 1918, or Jack the Ripper blindly striking out against Victorian morality.

 

In all these cases, a key element in the power structure is to disguise the exercise of power as 'natural,' and to point to any disruption of the power structure as 'violent' and 'criminal.' Thus if a poor family is turfed out on the street by their slum landlord since they can't pay the rent, this is not violence but just the ordinary course of the law according to the rules governing breach of contract, though it that same family now steals bread to feed themselves, they are dangerous criminals.

[swansont]

Similarly, so many rapes are committed by men because women withold their cooperation as sexual partners in order illegitimately to enhance their social power over men, even though in the natural state of the world there is sufficient sexual interest among both males and females, and they exist in sufficiently equal proportions, that everyone could be sexually fulfilled and happy all the time. But women are willing to create widespread sexual frustration, misery, and tension just to create an artificial power for themselves as governors of the artificial sex economy that they invent. This exploitation and power imbalance, like all such social moves, whether they be imbalances of wealth created by the rules of capitalism or racial power conjured up by the rules of racism or slavery, calls up a corresponding resentment in those mistreated, and the exploited and abused population lashes out with violence, whether in the form of Luddites smashing the machinery that put them out of work, Nat Turner murdering white slave holders in the Antebellum South, underpaid workers killing the Russian elite on their gigantic estates in 1918, or Jack the Ripper blindly striking out against Victorian morality.

OMG, seriously? Men rape because they are mistreated and exploited?

[John Cuthber]

A more plausible reason for at least some of that disparity is difference in reporting.

Or how about straightforward biology?

In general men are stronger than women so on the whole women who want to commit rape are going to lose the fight.

 

In the relatively rare case of a woman being physically able to overpower a man in this way you have to realise that if the bloke isn't interested, he won't get an erection, and without physical entry there is, in law, no rape.

 

How in the name of whatever did anyone not realise that?

The only thing stupider than the original question is Marat's bizarre answer.

[DJBruce]

Those are the first reasons that come to my mind as well John, however, I would also guess that it does have something with how our society looks at sex and gender roles in general. I would guess that the fact that our culture teaches men from a young age that sex is something that they should want, seek, and that they need to be the ones to initiate things in a relationship certainly plays some role in the mind set of rapists.

[Green Xenon]

Sexual violence has nothing to do with sexual urges. Rape and molestation and driven by the desire to cause harm -- not act on sex drive.

 

People have this stupid delusion that rape occurs in the open city and that sex-starved eve-teasers will forms gangs and rape random stranger young girls.

 

A woman is most likely to be raped by a man she knows and trusts -- boyfriend, family friend, acquaintance, etc. -- and this is most likely to take place in private area where there are few or no witnesses. Again, the perpetrator rapes the girl because he wants to harm her, not because he is sexually-attracted to her.

 

The idea that "stranger rape" is a grave concern is complete bull.

 

If I were female, I'd stay in public places as much as possible -- night and day -- and AVOID being in relationships with men. A public place full of male strangers is the safest place for a young woman, this is where she is LEAST likely to be sexually-abused.

 

A sex-predator doesn't have to be sexually-excited to make victims.

 

In addition, a sex-offender doesn't need genitals to molest his victims. Even an emasculated eunuch is fully-capable of raping women and children.

 

Take any sex-offender, castrate him, and completely rid him of his sex drive and testosterone. He is just as dangerous. If anything, emasculating a rapist makes him more hazardous because he might try to take revenge against the system by raping and killing young women.

 

How often must I repeat -- "rape is an act of *violence* not *sex*"

 

I will also add, pedophiles molest children not out of sexual interest but to cause harm to those children. It just so happens that pedophiles are sexually-attracted to kids. Most adults -- who are not pedophiles -- would innately find it extremely disgusting to even think of making sexual contact with children. This "pedophobia" is totally-natural and instinctive. Pedophiles, on the other hand, do not experience this innate disgust -- this is what makes it so easy for a pedophile to harm children via sexual abuse. Once again, the pedophile molests children for the sake of causing them harm. An adult who is not a pedophile, will feel eviscerated at the thought of sexually-abusing children. If this non-pedophile adult is cold-hearted, he may harm children via non-sexual abuse but not even in his most appalling nightmare would he make advances towards kids.

 

OMG, seriously? Men rape because they are mistreated and exploited?

 

 

These are called "anger-retaliation rapists"

[ajb]

If I were female, I'd stay in public places as much as possible -- night and day -- and AVOID being in relationships with men.

 

According to Marat this is why women are victims of rape! (Bizarre I know).

 

I my opinion you are right Green Xenon, rape is not a sex crime as such but it a crime based on dominance, violence, fear and defacement. It has very little to do with sexual desire in general.

 

I will also add, pedophiles molest children not out of sexual interest but to cause harm to those children.

 

I do not think I can agree with this totally. What reasons are given by paedophiles? For example, one of NAMBLA's goals is " to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships". The fact that they state mutually consensual does not sound like they intentionally want to course harm. Please note, I am not saying that they don't course harm or what they stand for is in any way right.

[DJBruce]

Sexual violence has nothing to do with sexual urges. Rape and molestation and driven by the desire to cause harm -- not act on sex drive.

 

I think you are being to black and white here. Yes, many rapes are driven by the desire to cause harm, and are not necessarily because of the rapists sex drive. However, I would contend there is a large number of rapes that are driven by the sexual urges of the rapist. The prime examples that come to my mind are the numerous rapes that occur on college campuses at bars, parties and frat houses where a man purposely intoxicates the women he wants to have sex with so that he knows he can "score" easier. I doubt that most of the frat stars and other students who do this are thinking I am going to get this girl drunk so that I can rape her to cause her harm. It would be much more likely that the man wants to have sex with the women, and wants to improve his chances.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Why are so many thefts committed by impoverished Blacks living in the inner cities? Because the power structure of society denies them what they need and should have as a matter of social justice -- that is, enough money to live a decent life and to have the necessary opportunities for self-development -- and then it also criminalizes their attempt to defy this power structure and take by force what they are illegitimately denied.

 

Similarly, so many rapes are committed by men because women withold their cooperation as sexual partners in order illegitimately to enhance their social power over men, even though in the natural state of the world there is sufficient sexual interest among both males and females, and they exist in sufficiently equal proportions, that everyone could be sexually fulfilled and happy all the time.

I see four points here which are implied but not stated. Are these indeed what you are arguing for, or have I misunderstood you?

 

1. Men need sex with women.
   
2. Men deserve sex with women as a matter of social justice.
   
3. Men who rape do so because they cannot get sex any other way; i.e. women consistently reject them or otherwise make it difficult for them.
   
4. Women would be fulfilled and happy if they gave in and had more sexual partners.

 

If you could simply verify that these are indeed implied by your argument, that would be great; I'd like to understand your points before I respond to them.

[John Cuthber]

Any discussion of human behaviour that doesn't take up a whole book is probably simplistic but it seems fair to assume that a lot of rape is more to do with power than sex.

Not to put too fine a point on it, no man was ever prosecuted for raping his hand; sex isn't hard to find. Sure, it's more fun in company but that's not a requirement.

 

However, whatever the motivation, in a fight between a 100 pound wrestler and a 140 pound wrestler, who would you bet on to win?

[ajb]

... sex isn't hard to find.

 

Sure, even "women of the night" are not that expensive as compared to several years in prison.

[Green Xenon]

The prime examples that come to my mind are the numerous rapes that occur on college campuses at bars, parties and frat houses where a man purposely intoxicates the women he wants to have sex with so that he knows he can "score" easier. I doubt that most of the frat stars and other students who do this are thinking I am going to get this girl drunk so that I can rape her to cause her harm. It would be much more likely that the man wants to have sex with the women, and wants to improve his chances.

 

 

Even in this case, the fact the he drunkens her means he has the urge to misuse his power over her. Obviously, any abuse of power is harmful. Once again, this, like most rapes are perpetrated by a guy that the girl knows and trusts and in a private area.

 

Giving someone an agent that will cause them to "consent" to sex, is a form of violence and is also driven by the want to dominate the significant other.

 

There are 4 prime type of rapists that have been classified:

 

1. Power-reassurance rapists

2. Power-assertive rapists

3. Anger-retaliation rapists

4. Anger-excitation rapists

 

The first type of rapist feels weak and wants to "reassure" himself of his masculinity by overpowering women. This type of rapist often targets older women who he feels are have some power over him.

 

The second type of rapist rapes in an attempt to dominate others. Will usually attack women around his age.

 

The third type of rapists wants revenge against society. He was likely molested as a child and when he reported it, his peers teased and beat him up and often attacked him with anti-gay and anti-transgender slurs. This rapist feels that society favors young girls over young boys. He thinks that the same people who ruined his childhood are the same people who have a soft spot for small girls. He is aware that even the tough guys in prison hate sex-offenders. This type rapist often has long had his suicide planned out and thus feels he has nothing to lose by retaliating against society. Often has the mentality of the boys who pulled of the Columbine tragedy. He wants to hurt male bullies by hurting girls. His targets are often any girl below 18 years of age because that is what will cause the most public outrage. He usually kills the girls he rapes to make it impossible for them to perceive any sympathy society would provide them. So why doesn't he just kill the girls as opposed to raping them? He is aware that society considers raping a girl MUCH worse of an act than just killing her. Murderers are given a lot more respect than rapists. His goal is to cause society as much frustration and anger as society causes him.

 

The fourth type of rapist is the most despicable. He often rapes transgender women and other social outcasts. He gains pleasure from causing any and all types of harm to his victims -- including rape. He may also attack elderly women and pre-adolescent boys. Often a gang-rapist.

 

For example, one of NAMBLA's goals is " to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships". The fact that they state mutually consensual does not sound like they intentionally want to course harm.

 

 

Pedophiles will find any excuse to molest children. "Consensual" or not, pedophiles clearly *do* intend to harm children. In many parts of the non-western world -- pedophilia is used by schoolteachers to make students suffer. It's their way "disciplining" the children.

 

The northwestern frontier of Pakistan comes to mind. In that country, homosexuality among consenting adults is punishable by death -- yet is is perfectly-acceptable for a grown man to publicly molest a pre-pubescent boy. Actually many of the nations run by fundamentalists, it is considered a matter of pride for a man to being in a sexual relationship with a small boy.

[Marat]

What do deprived people steal, and what do angry people vandalize? Only things that are both rare and valuable. If sex were treated as a causal human interest which was freely shared and distributed the same way we share and distribute handshakes, help with directions, or our role as potential conversation partners, then it would not become a scare and valuable resource which anyone would ever bother 'stealing.' And in fact we see that among our closest genetic relatives sex is indeed freely distributed all time, as it is in 'primitive' human tribes extant today, like the Kalahari Bushmen, among whom promiscuity is so common that they have never even figured out what causes pregnancy.

 

So, the question which naturally arises from this point in the reasoning is, why is the potential problem of violent stealing of sexual cooperation artificially created in our society by sex being 'commodified' as a scarce and valuable resource, when in fact it is a universal, ubiquitous resource which is always and everywhere in adequate supply for natural human demands for it?

 

The answer to that question which naturally follows is that we should 'follow the money' by asking who has benefited from transforming the nearly unlimited human potential for sexual partnership into a rare and valuable commodity, and how. Given that women can sell themselves as prostitutes much more effectively than men; given that courtship rituals require men to give gifts to and flatter women, but not vice versa; and given that women decide how, when, why, and to whom sexual partnership cooperation is extended, while male sexual partnership cooperation is not at all a rare commodity, in the resulting 'sellers' market' the women are able to demand all sorts of favors from men and protective social institutions -- such as the marriage institution that they want together with its moral and sometimes civil penalties for infidelity which they don't want -- it seems that women are to blame for having made sexual cooperation into something so scarce that it can be stolen, in contrast to something like human conversational cooperation, which is so commonly extended to all people that no one ever holds a gun on someone in a dark alley and forces him to discuss the day's weather with him!

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Do you propose that this is an intentional move by women?

[mooeypoo]

Why are so many thefts committed by impoverished Blacks living in the inner cities? Because the power structure of society denies them what they need and should have as a matter of social justice -- that is, enough money to live a decent life and to have the necessary opportunities for self-development -- and then it also criminalizes their attempt to defy this power structure and take by force what they are illegitimately denied.

Did you just compare thefts to rape? Your next paragraph starting with "Similarly" seems to indicate you do. Uhm... really?

 

 

Similarly, so many rapes are committed by men because women withold their cooperation as sexual partners in order illegitimately to enhance their social power over men, even though in the natural state of the world there is sufficient sexual interest among both males and females, and they exist in sufficiently equal proportions, that everyone could be sexually fulfilled and happy all the time. But women are willing to create widespread sexual frustration, misery, and tension just to create an artificial power for themselves as governors of the artificial sex economy that they invent. This exploitation and power imbalance, like all such social moves, whether they be imbalances of wealth created by the rules of capitalism or racial power conjured up by the rules of racism or slavery, calls up a corresponding resentment in those mistreated, and the exploited and abused population lashes out with violence, whether in the form of Luddites smashing the machinery that put them out of work, Nat Turner murdering white slave holders in the Antebellum South, underpaid workers killing the Russian elite on their gigantic estates in 1918, or Jack the Ripper blindly striking out against Victorian morality.

So, let me get this straight, Marat. Not only have you compared rapes to thefts (above), but you seem to indicate that women are responsible for the fact there ARE rapes.

 

Am I reading you right?

 

In all these cases, a key element in the power structure is to disguise the exercise of power as 'natural,' and to point to any disruption of the power structure as 'violent' and 'criminal.' Thus if a poor family is turfed out on the street by their slum landlord since they can't pay the rent, this is not violence but just the ordinary course of the law according to the rules governing breach of contract, though it that same family now steals bread to feed themselves, they are dangerous criminals.

 

So rape is a disruption of power? 'violent' and 'criminal' in quotation marks suggests it should not be considered either? I humbly request you explain your words here, Marat.

 

Seems to me your current words, as they sound at least, show that you either have no idea what rape is (or the actual statistics about why it is acted, most of which have NOTHING to do with sexual urgest and much to do with violence and power similar to kidnapping and brutalizing), or that you don't have much respect for women. They are, it seems, responsible for the existence of rape because they withhold cooperation.

 

Please tell me I read that wrong.

 

Because this:

Similarly, so many rapes are committed by men because women withold their cooperation as sexual partners in order illegitimately to enhance their social power over men

Is blatantly wrong, and quite honestly, absolutely disgusting blatant sexism.

 

~mooey

 

 

 

P.S The link above (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_for_rape#Research_on_convicted_rapists) is only the tip of the iceberg. If oyu really think women are responsible for being raped, I suggest you go read about what research of rapists and their motivations ACTUALLY shows, and, perhaps, some reports from the victims. Unless, of course, you think it's their fault.

[DJBruce]

Here are two fairly interesting pieces discussing the motivations behind date rape. The first paper tends to view the cause of date rape to be a mixture of our society's view on male gender roles, miscommunication between men and women, and men's insensitivity towards women:

 

The mass-market presentation of

Koss's research argues that "such roles can escalate into

rape" (Warshaw 1988:35) when men expect sex as both a

prize and a reassurance of manhood and women expect to

give in as part of good womanhood, Dating becomes

competition over the extent to which a woman will give in

and a man's sense of combat supercedes his civility...To the extent that men are

mistaking women's sexual intentions, erring on the side of

attributing pleasure and desire, they are systematically

misreading women in a way that makes it easier for them

to justify sexual coercion....The general picture provided by date rape research.

then, shows us ordinary men relaxed with women and

doing what they wish for a good time, insensitive to signs

that they violate either the law or the trust of their dates

 

 

The second article focuses on the idea of whether or not rape is about power and dominance, or sexual gratification. The authors of this short article find that it is infact a mixutre of both of these things that motivate rapists:

 

Symons reviewed forensic evidence showing that victims, as a class, were most likely to be young physically attractive women (as opposed to older, more successful career women. On the other hand, convicted rapists were disproportionately young disadvantaged men whose low social status made them undesirable as dating partners, or husbands...College men do not fit the profile of rapists drawn by Symons because they have high social status rather than being underprivileged. Moreover, at the risk of belaboring the obvious, a date rapist is often one who first succeeds in getting a date.

In the light of the recent discoveries about date rape, it seems that laying the blame for rapes largely on poor men might simply reflect biased treatment by the criminal justice system...In other words, it is not an either/or situation. Date rape is a sexual crime but it is also about who controls the interaction, an issue of great concern for feminists, and for women in general. In other words, date rape mixes up the feminist perspective on rape with the evolutionary one.

 

*As a slight disclaimer I could not find any real credientals for the second article, or the website it came from, however, it appears to care at least some legitimacy.

Edited July 12, 2011 by DJBruce

[StringJunky]

 

. Not only have you compared rapes to thefts (above), but you seem to indicate that women are responsible for the fact there ARE rapes.

 

Am I reading you right?

~mooey

 

 

In Egypt and other Islamic countries women are very often held as responsible for being raped with appalling social consequences for them and not the perpetrator. If you don't believe me here's an Egyptian ad urging women to cover up or face the consequences...it demeans men as well. Shocking really:

 

 

http://pollyticking.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/hajibcampaign.jpg

Edited July 12, 2011 by StringJunky

[mooeypoo]

In Egypt and other Islamic countries women are very often held as responsible for being raped with appalling social consequences for them and not the perpetrator. If you don't believe me here's an Egyptian ad urging women to cover up or face the consequences...it demeans men as well. Shocking really:

 

 

 

I believe you.

 

I was trying to see if I should believe Marat, who is not an extreme islamist mysogynistic criminal like the men in these extreme islamist countries (who often stone rape victims, by the way), also supports the same general idea.

 

That, however, is probably appeal to emotion. I withdraw. I'll simply ask him to clarify if he really meant women are "asking for it".

[StringJunky]

I believe you.

 

I was trying to see if I should believe Marat, who is not an extreme islamist mysogynistic criminal like the men in these extreme islamist countries (who often stone rape victims, by the way), also supports the same general idea.

 

That, however, is probably appeal to emotion. I withdraw. I'll simply ask him to clarify if he really meant women are "asking for it".

 

I've exposed myself to seeing and reading the dark side (to me anyway as a non-islamic European) of Islamic culture and "justice" via the internet at some depth and given the mindset entrenched in those populations (not all I might add) maybe "under-dressed" women are asking for it in the minds of the sexually oppressed males? Quite a few Saudi men engage in homosexual behaviour because the social mores there prevent casual social liaisons and hence sexual contact with women. In that kind of social climate any woman seen with bare flesh may just be like a red rag to a bull.

 

I think in this kind of discussion one needs to first define the culture the discourse is relevant to given the sheer diversity of global civilisations...some are more advanced socially than others and therefore expectations differ between them. I don't think we can have a 'one size fits all' conversation about it.

Edited July 12, 2011 by StringJunky

[ajb]

"Consensual" or not, pedophiles clearly *do* intend to harm children.

 

 

I guess it is the word clearly I cannot fathom. I agree that there are cases, and these maybe common in the non-western world, but I am unsure if the main motivator for most paedophiles is to deliberately course harm. Again, let me say that I am in no way saying that they do not course harm. They do damage children and their families, and this is clear.

 

Do we know what the medical/psychological opinions are on this? Am I right in understanding that most medical health professionals consider paedophilia as a mental illness? What is given in court as reasons for the behaviour? Not that this can necessarily be trusted.

[bob000555]

This is one of the most worst threads I’ve ever seen. All sides have produced a sorry excuse for a reasoned discussion, I realize this is an inherently emotional subject, but that’s really no excuse. A lot of the supposed “facts” in this thread don’t stand up to even basic scrutiny. I’ll address a few of them before moving onto the 800 pound gorilla in the room (Marat’s argument).

 

In the relatively rare case of a woman being physically able to overpower a man in this way you have to realise that if the bloke isn't interested, he won't get an erection, and without physical entry there is, in law, no rape.

 

How in the name of whatever did anyone not realise that?

 

Perhaps no one realized that because its not supported by the facts:

 

The belief that it is impossible for males to respond sexually when subjected to sexual molestation by women is contradicted. Previous research indicating that male sex response can occur in a variety of emotional states, including anger and terror, are corroborated.

 

Sarrel, Philip M., and William H. Masters. "Sexual Molestation of Men by Women." Archives of Sexual Behavior 11.223 Apr. (2005): 117-31. Print

 

In many parts of the non-western world -- pedophilia is used by schoolteachers to make students suffer. It's their way "disciplining" the children.

 

The northwestern frontier of Pakistan comes to mind. In that country, homosexuality among consenting adults is punishable by death…

 

The penalty for homosexual acts is death in "five countries and parts of Nigeria and Somalia." Pakistan is not one of the five countries; they are: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan and Mauritania.

http://ilga.org/historic/Statehomophobia/ILGA_map_2009_A4.pdf

The penalty for homosexual acts in Pakistan is either life imprisonment or imprisonment from 2 to 10 years. http://ilga.org/historic/Statehomophobia/ILGA_State_Sponsored_Homophobia_2009.pdf

 

This is a serious punishment. I can not see why you felt you had to make up the facts to exaggerate the seriousness of the penalty. Also, I could not find a single citation for your claim that pedophilia is used as a punishment by schoolteachers "in many parts of the non-Western world." If you have a citation for this, please share it.

 

Moving on from outright falsehoods to silliness verging on Sophistry , we come to Marat’s argument

 

Its apparent to me that Marat took a grain of truth then ran with it to ridiculous conclusions. I agree with Marat when he says “many rapes are committed by men because women withold[sic] their cooperation as sexual partners.” However, I believe the explanation for this is evolutionary psychology (explanation to follow) and not some consorted effort by women “illegitimately to enhance their social power over men.” (Don’t most people abandon the belief that the opposite sex has secret meetings to set strategy around middle school? ) Also, to the extent that Marat suggests that there is any excuse or justification for rape, I disavow myself of him entirely.

 

In virtually every species of animal, the female makes a much larger investment in the production of offspring than the male. In simple species, this is merely the difference between the of nutrient and energy requirements for oogenesis and spermatogenesis. In placental mammals, the difficulties that pregnancy imposes on the female become a significant difference. In primates and other species where the mother raises the children, childrearing responsibilities impose further burden on the female.

 

In virtually every species, this leads to markedly different mating strategies for males and females. One common theme is that, because males need to make a smaller investment to produce offspring, males attempt to maximize the number of mating opportunities while females are either passive or attempt to maximize mate quality. A common outcome of this is that males compete over females. For example, male fish develop bright colorization to demonstrate fitness, male elephants, walruses and rhinos develop tusks and fight over females.

 

In modern humans, both male competition and female choice are important components of mate selection. Because females have an evolutionary incentive to maximize the quality of their mates while males have (or at least had, in primitive societies) an incentive to maximize the number of their mates, there is a mismatch in desired mating outcomes. Males have a strong evolutionary incentive to mate, even if the female does not consent to be being mated with. The adaptation of rape as a male evolutionary strategy is a likely outcome of this incentive structure. That, I would submit, is why most rapes are committed by men.

 

As I said, I do not think this excuses or justifies rape in the modern world.

Edited July 12, 2011 by bob000555

[swansont]

What do deprived people steal, and what do angry people vandalize? Only things that are both rare and valuable.

 

Um, no. The value of things stolen or vandalized is a spectrum; sometimes it's valuable and sometimes not so much. A concrete wall that is defaced with graffiti was valuable (or rare)? A window broken in an abandoned building?

[mooeypoo]

I've exposed myself to seeing and reading the dark side (to me anyway as a non-islamic European) of Islamic culture and "justice" via the internet at some depth and given the mindset entrenched in those populations (not all I might add) maybe "under-dressed" women are asking for it in the minds of the sexually oppressed males? Quite a few Saudi men engage in homosexual behaviour because the social mores there prevent casual social liaisons and hence sexual contact with women. In that kind of social climate any woman seen with bare flesh may just be like a red rag to a bull.

 

I think in this kind of discussion one needs to first define the culture the discourse is relevant to given the sheer diversity of global civilisations...some are more advanced socially than others and therefore expectations differ between them. I don't think we can have a 'one size fits all' conversation about it.

 

There's a difference between saying "maybe some men think that" and saying "They are asking for it."

 

With due respect, there's no definition of culture here. Either someone believes women "ask for it", or someone doesn't.

 

What should be in the context of social structures is how to fix it. Or other problems with sexism like, say, the fact women are significantly less prevalent in sciences. (physics: 10% women in the US. Much higher in Europe, but still not equal).

 

Rape, however, is a violent act. I see no excuse to claim someone "was asking for it". Worse than that, saying that women are "asking for it" is akin to supporting the "side" of rapists; if women are asking for it, you can't blame the rapist for doing it. And even worse than that, my dear friend men of this forum, it's an insult to you. Because other than being a statement that supports a violent act, it reduces you -- all of you -- to thoughtless drones whose reproductive organs do the thinking for them and how horribly mistreated they are by women who deny them their basic rights of power.

 

Seems he managed to touch everyone in this statement. Impressive.

 

~mooey

[Moontanman]

Women are asking for it? That would be funny if not for the horrific consequences of such thought processes. Men who rape do so out of anger, not sexual need, as long as a man has his fist sex cannot be denied to him by anyone (well hand cuffs behind the back might do it, lol) I think to some extent culture is responsible for the idea of "women asking for it" you don't have to go back very far in western society to find this idea well entrenched, 100 years ago in the USA a raped woman was scorned as a fallen woman who somehow asked for it. If she was in the least bit unconventional this unconventionality was used to blame her in some way, simply being in an area that was considered bad in some way was reason to say she was asking for it and if she wasn't a virgin then she was even further ridiculed. The idea that a hooker cannot be raped is still with us and has even in recent years been used to allow rapists to go free.

 

Woman can force sex on men but it is rare and usually not a violent act and men seldom even consider reporting it. Several years ago a man near where I lived tried to charge two women of raping him. They tied him up and had sex with him repeatedly over a weekend while torturing him as well. It never went to trail because he couldn't prove he didn't enjoy it or some such bag of crazy. They claimed he had paid them to do that to him and while many of us would find that a crazy assertion to begin with others of us know that sort of thing does indeed happen. Men are also programmed by society to think that turning down a woman's sexual advances is some how unmanly and besmirches their manhood in some way, mature adult men know this is not true but younger less mature males sometimes have problems understanding this.

 

Any woman should be safe anywhere in our society, no matter how she is dressed or undressed, if any man cannot control his sexual urges any better than that he needs to go for therapy or be locked up. I live near the beach, i get to regularly see woman dressed in ways that might make a hooker blush but while I enjoy the sight to think they are asking me to have sex with them, even consensual sex would be incredibly egotistical of me not to mention just silly.

 

A psychopath or possibly more accurately a sociopath will use any justification to get what he or she wants, to him or her every one else exists for no other reason than to serve their needs, all the excuses they use are just window dressing to try and convince others they are not doing anything wrong or that they just can't help themselves, this includes many behaviors other than sex as well so we should help them to prison where they can socialize with their peers...