Hal. Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 The following sentence is an English language sentence : We will eat neither fish nor chips but bread . Based on the meaning of this sentence I would like to ask people the following , Of the three foods mentioned , fish , chips , bread , Which of these are we going to eat ?
Dekan Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 The following sentence is an English language sentence : We will eat neither fish nor chips but bread . Based on the meaning of this sentence I would like to ask people the following , Of the three foods mentioned , fish , chips , bread , Which of these are we going to eat? That's not really a proper modern English sentence, though. It lacks punctuation, and the use of "but " is archaic and King James Bible-ish. If the sentence were put into modern English, it would read: "We will eat neither fish nor chips - only bread." Even that doesn't sound entirely idiomatic: Better would be: "We won't eat fish, or chips. Only bread". An interesting post, but what exactly are you getting at?
swansont Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 [/font] [/font] That's not really a proper modern English sentence, though. It lacks punctuation, and the use of "but " is archaic and King James Bible-ish. If the sentence were put into modern English, it would read: "We will eat neither fish nor chips - only bread." Even that doesn't sound entirely idiomatic: Better would be: "We won't eat fish, or chips. Only bread". An interesting post, but what exactly are you getting at? You're killing me. (Or, going the the full McKean, your killing me)
Hal. Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 The only addition I would make to the sentence is a comma , giving the following , We will eat neither fish nor chips , but bread . An interesting post, but what exactly are you getting at? All I am trying to do is ask people the meaning of this sentence . I put it in this form , it could , I think , just as well have been put as follows . We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . Then my question would simply change to , Of the three activities mentioned , football , golf , hockey , Which of these are we going to go to ?
StringJunky Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) The only addition I would make to the sentence is a comma , giving the following , We will eat neither fish nor chips , but bread . All I am trying to do is ask people the meaning of this sentence . I put it in this form , it could , I think , just as well have been put as follows . We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . Then my question would simply change to , Of the three activities mentioned , football , golf , hockey , Which of these are we going to go to ? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey; which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey...which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey. Which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey-which of these are we going to go to? Edited July 14, 2011 by StringJunky
Hal. Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 So StringJunky , your different forms of the question are noted , can you see different replies as answers ?
TonyMcC Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey; which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey...which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey. Which of these are we going to go to? Of the three activities mentioned: football, golf and hockey-which of these are we going to go to? Never use a preposition to end a sentence with! 1
Dekan Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 All I am trying to do is ask people the meaning of this sentence . I put it in this form , it could , I think , just as well have been put as follows . We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey. If you said that to someone, they'd back away nervously, muttering "OK guy, fine, see you later...". Then they'd phone a friend and ask: "Is that guy safe?"
StringJunky Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Never use a preposition to end a sentence with! Can you clarify?
Hal. Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 TonyMcC , Are you typically doing what you typically shouldn't do ?
StringJunky Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Tony The spurious rule about not ending sentences with prepositions is a remnant of Latin grammar, in which a preposition was the one word that a writer could not end a sentence with. But Latin grammar should never straightjacket English grammar. If the superstition is a "rule" at all, it is a rule of rhetoric and not of grammar, the idea being to end sentences with strong words that drive a point home. That principle is sound, of course, but not to the extent of meriting lockstep adherence or flouting established idiom. (Garner's Modern American Usage, Oxford University Press, 2003) http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/f/terminalprepositionmyth.htm Hal You should always put your punctuation marks immediately after the last word and then make a space before the next sentence or part of it...except when using dashes (-) and the ellipsis (...). Edited July 14, 2011 by StringJunky
TonyMcC Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Can you clarify? Its a sort of joke. There is a rule in English that you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. Both "to" and "with" are prepositions.
imatfaal Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Never use a preposition to end a sentence with! “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.” 2
TonyMcC Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.” I know it's a rule that is, perhaps with good reason, often broken. My only excuse is that I went to a grammar school!
Hal. Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 TonyMcC , + 30 posts , joke explained ! All I am trying to do is ask people the meaning of this sentence . I put it in this form , it could , I think , just as well have been put as follows . We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . If you said that to someone, they'd back away nervously, muttering "OK guy, fine, see you later...". Then they'd phone a friend and ask: "Is that guy safe?" Why ?
imatfaal Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Why ? It's a slightly unusual method of expression - although it would surely be understood. I might use that formulation, but only in an OTT manner; eg if I was celebrating 'Tonight we will drink neither beer nor wine but champagne!' It is old fashioned enough to be a bit hammy or camp and perhaps not an entirely natural usage. And as you can tell from the example I am off to the pub. Gnite!
StringJunky Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I know it's a rule that is, perhaps with good reason, often broken. My only excuse is that I went to a grammar school! I wish I'd been as fortunate as you...I was in the first intake of the 'comprehensive' system. TBH, coming here has made me analyse my style and subsequent errors on the way. I'm evolving all the time with this...there are some very good users of English here that I learn bits from here and there. Rules are made to be broken but it should not be done without being mindful of the potential consequences. Edited July 14, 2011 by StringJunky
Hal. Posted July 14, 2011 Author Posted July 14, 2011 Hearing talk like that , I would think it is a bit ' Law dee Daw ' , remember it is only to illustrate a piece of grammar that I would like to find any meanings of . The sentence is currently , We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . The question currently is , Of the three activities mentioned : football , golf and hockey ; Which of these are we going to go to ? I thank StringJunky for the ' : ' , ' ; ' and also the ' and ' .
Dekan Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Hearing talk like that , I would think it is a bit ' Law dee Daw ' , remember it is only to illustrate a piece of grammar that I would like to find any meanings of . The sentence is currently , We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . The question currently is , Of the three activities mentioned : football , golf and hockey ; Which of these are we going to go to ? I thank StringJunky for the ' : ' , ' ; ' and also the ' and ' . I can't see why you're insisting on that word "but". The word can certainly be used in expressions such as: " Some posters drink nothing but vodka ". However the contrived sentence: "We will go to neither the football nor the golf, but the hockey" is unnatural in modern colloquial English. It invites the question: but the hockey - what? If you absolutely insist on having "but", this would be an acceptable sentence: "We will go to neither the football nor the golf, but we'll go to the hockey." What's with this "but" fixation? Please clarify, thanks.
Hal. Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 I can't see why you're insisting on that word "but". I must insist on that word because it is in the sentence I want to know the meaning of , no arrogance intended . The word can certainly be used in expressions such as: " Some posters drink nothing but vodka ". I understand that Dekan , but it is only this instance I am questioning the meaning of . However the contrived sentence: "We will go to neither the football nor the golf, but the hockey" is unnatural in modern colloquial English. It invites the question: but the hockey - what? Hopefully , it invites many questions as multiple meanings of the sentence is the point of the thread . If you absolutely insist on having "but", this would be an acceptable sentence: "We will go to neither the football nor the golf, but we'll go to the hockey." I must insist , the sample you give would only be acceptable if it did not change the meaning of my original sentence , which I fear it may . What's with this "but" fixation? Please clarify, thanks. It is the full sentence that is in question , not any particular word , only the meaning of this instance in conjunction with the others . .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Threads can be very long and the actual point can be lost , for clarity the following is the current situation , forgive the necessary monotony . .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... The sentence is currently , We will go to neither the football nor the golf , but the hockey . The question currently is , Of the three activities mentioned : football , golf and hockey ; Which of these are we going to go to ?
JohnB Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) but the hockey - what? Is on TV down at the pub, let's go get a beer. (Sorry, couldn't resist. ) Edited July 16, 2011 by JohnB
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