Was Mohammed considered the Antichrist at that time?

[Realitycheck]

In Revelations, the Antichrist seems to clearly be referred to as an actual person and Islam and Christianity were clearly at war for quite some, yet there was really no clear winner with both sides being godly and virtuous in their own ways. It really seems like that was possibly the case since the Antichrist was supposed to mimic Christianity and deceive, etc. But it also seems that Christanity has toned down its message over time out of attempts at reconciliation and changed their message to more of a figurative one. Actually, I'm not even sure why I asked because Islam has kind of relished in the role, claiming that Mohammed was ordered to revelate by the angel Gabriel and the rest is history. But since Islam kind of jumped the gun and accepted the Old Testament and mythology as truth, that poses a significant flaw in so-called "revelation". However, since Islam does seem to have some sense of respect for science at some level, yet remaining respectful of its vast majority of old school followers, what will it take to get everyone on the same page? One thing I have noticed is that while many Jews have let go of the fallacies of the OT, many Christians have stubbornly clung to their creationist beginnings either due to an orthodox-like habit or out of spite, simply because that is "what is written".

[Marat]

Since Islam teaches that Jesus is to be respected as a great teacher though not as the son of God, that doctrine seems inconsistent with the view of Mohammed as the Anti-Christ, who presumably would have been the arch-enemy of Christ, without compromise.

[Realitycheck]

C'mon, Islam fought the Crusaders for hundred of years. The only reason you hear talk resembling what you say is because they have mostly reconciled and try to cover it up. Mohammed is at least as guilty, was easily arguably the instigator, and went on quite a rampage unchecked before the Crusaders got really organized about fighting back, IIRC. Its all history, hundreds of years, like 650 - through the 1100's-1300's or so. It's all history. Why lie? Sooner or later, warring peoples reconcile, but why lie?

[Brainteaserfan]

C'mon, Islam fought the Crusaders for hundred of years. The only reason you hear talk resembling what you say is because they have mostly reconciled and try to cover it up. Mohammed is at least as guilty, was easily arguably the instigator, and went on quite a rampage unchecked before the Crusaders got really organized about fighting back, IIRC. Its all history, hundreds of years, like 650 - through the 1100's-1300's or so. It's all history. Why lie? Sooner or later, warring peoples reconcile, but why lie?

When did they lie?

[Realitycheck]

Refer to Marat's post. They were at war for quite some time, now they are not necessarily. Saying that Islam preaches fellowship with Christanity doesn't mean that they always did.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Realitycheck

[Brainteaserfan]

Refer to Marat's post. They were at war for quite some time, now they are not necessarily. Saying that Islam preaches fellowship with Christanity doesn't mean that they always did.

Oh. My mistake. I didn't realize that that was referring to his post.

 

There seem, IMO, divided opinions and Quran texts on relation with Jesus. I'm not sure that Islam today all preaches fellowship either.

[jimmydasaint]

I don't know dude, does this sound like an Anti Christ figure?

 

Question: What does the Qur'an say about Jesus?

 

Answer: In the Qur'an, there are many stories about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ (called 'Isa in Arabic). The Qur'an recalls his miraculous birth, his teachings, the miracles he performed by God's permission, and his life as a respected prophet of God. The Qur'an also repeatedly reminds that Jesus was a human prophet sent by God, not part of God Himself. Below are some direct quotations from the Qur'an regarding his life and teachings of Jesus.

 

He Was Righteous

 

"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48).

 

He Was a Prophet

 

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

 

"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35).

 

He Was a Humble Servant of God

 

"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).

 

His Teachings

 

"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65)

 

Link

[Realitycheck]

What you seem to be leaving out is the difference between today's Koran and the one from 1400 years ago that was supposedly memorized in bits and pieces by his followers, then written on leaves and pieces of bark, and only eventualy written on paper, as the story goes. Looks pretty heavy on the propaganda, but on closer inspection, I think the term Antichrist maybe takes things a bit too far. While the general opinion of him among Christians and Jews back then was that of a deceiver and he was responsible for a good little bit of warring, there were a lot of other Arabian warmongers that were far worse. Its just that when he poses as a prophet with lots of blood on his hands, he really fits the role, despite however diminished his role may have been in comparison with other like-minded Arabs.

 

"While conceptions of Mohammed in medieval Christendom and premodern times were largely negative, appraisals in modern times have been far less so."

 

"The earliest documented Christian knowledge of Mohammed stems from Byzantine sources. They indicate that both Jews and Christians saw Mohammed as a deceiving prophet, or at least in certain circles. In the Doctrine Jacobs hyper baptiz of 634, Mohammed is also portrayed as being 'deceiving, for do prophets come with sword and chariot? You will discover nothing true from the said prophet except human bloodshed.' (wikipedia/Mohammed)

 

In conclusion, I think that the shoe fits if you want to make that argument.

 

He was supposedly ordered to revelate by Gabriel.

His "revelations" are untrue and mimic the original Biblical message, not really revealing anything.

He made up his own religion, later combining it with Judaism and Christianity.

He warred. His war was rather limited and insignificant.

Jesus never came back.

Stalemate.

 

However, when you factor in the more significant wars by other later Arabs and the Crusaders and so forth, thats when the ideology seems to change (or rather, when things start to heat up), but that's not necessarily relevant.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Realitycheck