0 energy system?

[alpha2cen]

What is the 0 energy system? 0K ? No mass? But gravity force can pass through it. And electro magnetic wave also passes through it. The system has a volume too.

[swansont]

If there is no energy or mass there is no gravity nor any electromagnetic waves. But there's always going to be zero-point energy.

[alpha2cen]

Even at the absolute vacuum space Casimir force exists. No energy make such force.

[swansont]

No energy make such force.

 

I don't know what this means. Did you mean having no energy makes this force, or there is no energy that can give rise to this force, or something else?

[alpha2cen]

I don't know what this means. Did you mean having no energy makes this force, or there is no energy that can give rise to this force, or something else?

 

There is no energy - we generally think, i.e., no mass in the vacuum. But the empty space has a force to draw each objects in a very small distance.

Edited July 26, 2011 by alpha2cen

[swansont]

There is no energy - we generally think, i.e., no mass in the vacuum. But the empty space has a force to draw each objects in a very small distance.

 

Yes, that's the zero-point energy. The zero-point energy is a minimum; it's not zero energy.

[hawksmere]

Dividing E=ymc² by p =ymv leaves E/p=c²/v which for the case v=c means E=cp. Therefore, the bottom line is that energy and momentum could conceivably be nonzero even for an object with zero mass (but only if it travels at speed c. That surely gives us massless particles.

 

possibility i could have misread the question though.

Edited August 19, 2011 by hawksmere

[TheLivingMartyr]

:::WARNING, NON-EXPERT ALERT:::

 

I understand that according to quantum mechanics, or the uncertainty principle (I'm pretty sure the latter is a part of the former) It is impossible to know the velocity and position of a particle simultaneously; likeweise, it is impossible to know the exact energy in a given region of space at any point in time. Doesn't nature, therefore, "create" virtual particles which can materialise as real particles by taking in surrounding energy (presumably gravitational waves, EM, etc.) and then annihilating: "Paying off their energy debt"? Is this the same thing as the "zero-point energy?"

[swansont]

:::WARNING, NON-EXPERT ALERT:::

 

I understand that according to quantum mechanics, or the uncertainty principle (I'm pretty sure the latter is a part of the former) It is impossible to know the velocity and position of a particle simultaneously; likeweise, it is impossible to know the exact energy in a given region of space at any point in time. Doesn't nature, therefore, "create" virtual particles which can materialise as real particles by taking in surrounding energy (presumably gravitational waves, EM, etc.) and then annihilating: "Paying off their energy debt"? Is this the same thing as the "zero-point energy?"

 

Yes and no. The "borrow and repay" scenario is a popularization, used as a bridge from classical to quantum in explaining this. The HUP just says there's a limit to knowing what the energy will be which depends on how long you do the measurement. The popularization implies that the energy is precisely known, and you've exceeded it.

 

The virtual particles generally do not take in any outside energy — they just annihilate. They can; that's a mechanism behind Hawking radiation. Only upon the intake of energy are the particles real.

[QuantumBullet]

Due to the HUP, you cannot have an area of 0 energy. On a macro-scale, it may seem that the vacuum contains 0 energy. However, due to HUP, the smaller and smaller the scale on which you examine the vacuum, the quantum fluctuations and uncertainty increases.

 

This is why, as it is commonly expressed, on the smallest of scales (i.e. the Plank length), the space-time fabric is extremely distorted, due to virtual particles etc. As you zoom out to a macro-scales, the very same region of space-time appears to be smooth, and hence can handle 0 energy.

 

 

As a side, but very crucial, point, the Laws of Thermodynamics strictly disallow any system to attain 0 K. This is because temperature arises from kinetic energy, so a particle with a temperature of 0K would have no motion. I.e. we would know with 100% precision the location and energy of said particle. This is in compelte contradiction with the HUP.

 

So there are 2 inherent Laws that prevent a 0 Energy system./