Tea party

[Brainteaserfan]

I'm especially interested in how those outside the US view the tea party movement.

[Realitycheck]

Tea party who?

[Brainteaserfan]

Tea party who?

Lol -sorry about that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

[JohnB]

I find that there isn't a problem with Tea Party movement unless I serve prune juice with the Earl Grey.

[CaptainPanic]

The tea party stands quite far away from my own values and morals... but I guess I have come to realize during the last decade that there are a lot of people in the US who stand quite far away from my own values and morals.

 

If they would get power through fair elections, I have no objection to them. With fair elections, I do also mean that the campaign is factual, not emotional. I am convinced that the campaigns in the US are almost purely an emotional affair, and that facts matter very little. And the tea party is quite excellent at playing at emotions (especially feelings of unhappiness, discontent and nationalism). The tea party seem to be the populists of the US.

 

You ask me how I see the tea party. That's how I see them. It may not all be correct.

[imatfaal]

I think the tea party is pretty removed from my values as well - although I do think the way the liberal european press portray them is a little ott. I find it hard to believe they are all the gun-totting, raw-meat eating nutters that the depictions would have one believe.

[doG]

I am convinced that the campaigns in the US are almost purely an emotional affair, and that facts matter very little.

That's why I am generally opposed to voting as a means of picking leaders since it doesn't qualify them in any way other than popularity. Presidential elections have become a good example. It was originally intended that the electors of the Electoral College would meet and discuss who was most qualified for the job but the States have corrupted it by passing laws to instruct their electors to adhere to the popular vote. Now all we have left is a beauty contest and one moron after another leading the country

[Realitycheck]

and that's the truth, Ruth.

[JohnB]

I do sometimes wonder if the West wouldn't be better off picking politicians by a random draw of Social Security (or their equivalent) numbers. Considering the clusterf*ck that a number of "democratically elected" governments have made of their economies, it's kind of hard to imagine a bunch of amateurs picked at random doing a worse job.

[Brainteaserfan]

I do sometimes wonder if the West wouldn't be better off picking politicians by a random draw of Social Security (or their equivalent) numbers. Considering the clusterf*ck that a number of "democratically elected" governments have made of their economies, it's kind of hard to imagine a bunch of amateurs picked at random doing a worse job.

No, we wouldn't be better off. At least if a current politician did something terrible, they might lose their office. If randomly selected, you'd just be trying to make it better for you, your family, and your friends.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Brainteaserfan

[CaptainPanic]

I do sometimes wonder if the West wouldn't be better off picking politicians by a random draw of Social Security (or their equivalent) numbers. Considering the clusterf*ck that a number of "democratically elected" governments have made of their economies, it's kind of hard to imagine a bunch of amateurs picked at random doing a worse job.

No, we wouldn't be better off. At least if a current politician did something terrible, they might lose their office. If randomly selected, you'd just be trying to make it better for you, your family, and your friends.

Oh, come on! That's exactly what politicians do too.

Sure, they promise to do everything that they said during the campaigns... until lobby group X pays a visit, and heavily influences the politicians.

 

Politicians no longer have many friends in the local pub. Their relations are different. But they certainly try to make it better for a select group of people who have gained access to them. Lobbyists and politicians certainly have fun together, and I wouldn't be surprised if they call each other "friends"...

[Brainteaserfan]

Oh, come on! That's exactly what politicians do too.

Sure, they promise to do everything that they said during the campaigns... until lobby group X pays a visit, and heavily influences the politicians.

 

Politicians no longer have many friends in the local pub. Their relations are different. But they certainly try to make it better for a select group of people who have gained access to them. Lobbyists and politicians certainly have fun together, and I wouldn't be surprised if they call each other "friends"...

No, they try to get reelected too. Sure, they try to make it better for their friends and family too, but if randomly selected, you'd have no incentive to work in the interests of the people.

[CaptainPanic]

No, they try to get reelected too. Sure, they try to make it better for their friends and family too, but if randomly selected, you'd have no incentive to work in the interests of the people.

You could just add some incentive. A financial bonus afterwards if the the voters think you did a good job. Corruption is always a danger if people get power... regardless of the system.

 

For the rest, it is statistics.

Whether you (1) let all voters choose from a selective group of political parties what they think is best (our system now), or (2) you pick a set of voters directly, both should be roughly representative of what the people want... as long as you (1) have a wide choice of parties that include all opinions or (2) choose a group that is large enough to have an acceptably large chance that the group of randomly picked politicians is representative of the electorate.

[Brainteaserfan]

You could just add some incentive. A financial bonus afterwards if the the voters think you did a good job. Corruption is always a danger if people get power... regardless of the system.

And if I was a politician then, I'd create laws that favor poorer people and take a lot from those richer ones for them. I could be confident that the majority would vote for me, and I'd spend time relaxing.

 

Still.. it might work. I'd love to see this tried in a smaller country successfully. However, I'd also like for those in power to have had more education than the average person, so if people would just do several hrs of research each year with the current system, we'd already have a lot better place to live IMO.

[Moontanman]

You could just add some incentive. A financial bonus afterwards if the the voters think you did a good job. Corruption is always a danger if people get power... regardless of the system.

 

For the rest, it is statistics.

Whether you (1) let all voters choose from a selective group of political parties what they think is best (our system now), or (2) you pick a set of voters directly, both should be roughly representative of what the people want... as long as you (1) have a wide choice of parties that include all opinions or (2) choose a group that is large enough to have an acceptably large chance that the group of randomly picked politicians is representative of the electorate.

 

 

Possibly being assigned to office could be random but at the end of the term a vote, to either retire you in luxury or shoot you, could be taken? That might be a bit of an incentive to do a good job, now it's just a popularity contest to get elected so you get the perks after whether you are a total disaster or not.

[Brainteaserfan]

Possibly being assigned to office could be random but at the end of the term a vote, to either retire you in luxury or shoot you, could be taken? That might be a bit of an incentive to do a good job, now it's just a popularity contest to get elected so you get the perks after whether you are a total disaster or not.

This is getting rather off topic.

 

I think you'd need other options besides the two extremes, and besides, if you were elected and there was a downturn in the economy, you'd be hurt for the rest of your life (assuming it wasn't put to a quick end at the termination of your term.)

[amanda more]

This is getting rather off topic.

 

I think you'd need other options besides the two extremes, and besides, if you were elected and there was a downturn in the economy, you'd be hurt for the rest of your life (assuming it wasn't put to a quick end at the termination of your term.)

 

Neurologically two people can see the same data and the information may be viewed correctly.

 

One group embraces absolutes. That is calming.

 

Another group tries to figure what the heck is really going on and scrambles even in the midst of ambivalence and acknowledging confusion. They welcome many concepts and ideas.

 

One group I snuck in on a week ago had the statement "We are being enslaved and we need to wake up to this." Question- Hasn't this always been true and hasn't it been worse in the past?

 

"It wasn't true at one time in the past - things were better at the founding of this country"

 

"Uh, well Slavery" I then spread my arms wide "And women didn't have the right to vote" I pointed my palms up entreating him.

 

"It was better for me"

[Moontanman]

I view the tea party as the future of humanity, they possess the absolute truth as described in their revealed word of god, this absolute truth has so much weight with the people who believe, it will eventually create such a pull of absolute truth it will pull the entirety of human society into an intellectual black hole from which nothing intelligent will ever be able to return. that is what I think of the tea party... brainteaserfan, it was a joke, not a real suggestion of how run a government but the tea party is no joke and the danger it poses is no joke either....

[amanda more]

I view the tea party as the future of humanity, they possess the absolute truth as described in their revealed word of god, this absolute truth has so much weight with the people who believe, it will eventually create such a pull of absolute truth it will pull the entirety of human society into an intellectual black hole from which nothing intelligent will ever be able to return. that is what I think of the tea party... brainteaserfan, it was a joke, not a real suggestion of how run a government but the tea party is no joke and the danger it poses is no joke either....

 

CONGRESS VOTES TO PAY ITS BILLS (as of around 7 tonight)

 

I keep asking what the heck is going on. Then I recalled.

 

These are the people who start wars.

 

If they are willing to sign off on 100,000 deaths in a country to "free" them.

 

Either causing seniors heart attacks or playing chicken and/or crashing the economy is all good.

 

As I watched the flurry of suits in the House of Representatives then, of course.

 

A bunch of irrelevant middle aged chunky fat cats or their wannabes. No wonder. I suppose not much opportunity for fake machismo in the real world.

 

Pointing two cars at each other and gunning their engines must appeal to these jokers but their Daddys would have cut up their trust funds.