religion and politics

[Athena]

Bare with me, I don't see a draft function, so I will have to post and edit a few times to get the links in.

 

I have been fasting since Friday, and will fly to Washington DC to protest the Tea Party and the Republican resistance to raising taxes to pay for the wars they started, while insisting we manage the national debt crisis by taking money from seniors. We all pay into Social Security and our monthly checks depend on how much we put in. This is separate from income taxes to pay government expenses, and those who got us into wars and keep us us in them, should not be able to break the deal our government made with hard working citizens. The Tea Party is hypocritical because the original Tea Party was opposed to increased taxes, Britain was making all British citizens, because several years of war, had Britain on the brink of bankruptcy. Our founders kept the power to make war out of our president's hands, and made it hard for us to go to war, because everyone knew war means taxes and they didn't want what we have had since Reagan began slashing domestic spending and pouring every penny he could in military spending. The media is failing us, because all this is not news, and the public is not well informed.

 

This is in the religion forum, because of the part Christian Zionist play in keeping us in a state of war. Can you honestly believe they are just coincidentally having convention in Washington DC when the there is a fight over cutting the budget and what will be cut? Here is a Muslim perspective of that convention.

http://www.almoltaqa...ead.php?p=73053

 

Here is another link of the same thing. I little different perspective.

http://www.haaretz.c...israel-1.374161

 

Now here is an explanation of US aid to Israel and contributions of congressmen.

http://wrmea.org/com...14-billion.html

 

We might note the conference originates in Texas. I could be wrong, but I think, like the Bush administration, and especially the Texas Republicans, Christians are once again being using to control our spending on the military and cutting domestic budgets. We might also consider what industry will be kept healthy and what business will not be kept healthy if the Tea Party and John Boehner get their way way. We might pay more attention to what Eisenhower said about the Military Industrial Complex and what Carter said about needing to conserve.

 

War is good for religion and religion is good for war, but we are a democracy, and need to do something about the manipulation of Christians for political ends, especially when have so much on the line.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Athena

[Brainteaserfan]

Bare with me, I don't see a draft function, so I will have to post and edit a few times to get the links in.

 

I have been fasting since Friday, and will fly to Washington DC to protest the Tea Party and the Republican resistance to raising taxes to pay for the wars they started, while insisting we manage the national debt crisis by taking money from seniors. We all pay into Social Security and our monthly checks depend on how much we put in. This is separate from income taxes to pay government expenses, and those who got us into wars and keep us us in them, should not be able to break the deal our government made with hard working citizens. The Tea Party is hypocritical because the original Tea Party was opposed to increased taxes, Britain was making all British citizens, because several years of war, had Britain on the brink of bankruptcy. Our founders kept the power to make war out of our president's hands, and made it hard for us to go to war, because everyone knew war means taxes and they didn't want what we have had since Reagan began slashing domestic spending and pouring every penny he could in military spending. The media is failing us, because all this is not news, and the public is not well informed.

 

This is in the religion forum, because of the part Christian Zionist play in keeping us in a state of war. Can you honestly believe they are just coincidentally having convention in Washington DC when the there is a fight over cutting the budget and what will be cut? Here is a Muslim perspective of that convention.

http://www.almoltaqa...ead.php?p=73053

 

Here is another link of the same thing. I little different perspective.

http://www.haaretz.c...israel-1.374161

 

Now here is an explanation of US aid to Israel and contributions of congressmen.

http://wrmea.org/com...14-billion.html

 

We might note the conference originates in Texas. I could be wrong, but I think, like the Bush administration, and especially the Texas Republicans, Christians are once again being using to control our spending on the military and cutting domestic budgets. We might also consider what industry will be kept healthy and what business will not be kept healthy if the Tea Party and John Boehner get their way way. We might pay more attention to what Eisenhower said about the Military Industrial Complex and what Carter said about needing to conserve.

 

War is good for religion and religion is good for war, but we are a democracy, and need to do something about the manipulation of Christians for political ends, especially when have so much on the line.

While the Republicans did start wars, and I'm not pleased with them for it, Obama has started a war in Libya, and he hasn't done a whole lot to get our troops out of the battlefield in other countries.

 

The spending cuts are unsubstantial (if that's a word.)

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=13484

We aren't taking that much from seniors as far as I know.

 

I'm still left a little confused on how war is good for religion.

[Athena]

This is the 3rd day of my fast and I am not as mentally alert as I need to be, so answering questions is a bite more challenging. During the cold war with the USSR, the US propaganda made a big deal out of the USSR rejecting religion and the US being a nation of God. This is when we added God to our pledge of allegiance. This was extremely helpful in uniting the nation against those Godless communist. At the same time it motivated many citizens to take their threatened Christianity more seriously. Being a good citizen was tied to being a Christian. Religion unites people, and enemies unite people, exaggerating the imagined differences and increasing the need to identify with 'us' and against 'them'. Some ancient Greek guy wrote about what war does to people, and I wish I were smart enough to remember his name and what he said. More recent research observed how conflict leads to exaggerating differences. Like oh God, those Godless people are so terrible and threatening, and there are so many of them. Without God they are under the influence of Satan. They must either be converted or destroyed.

 

Seriously, are you asking the question because you do not know what the people of the God of Abraham religions believe, or because you are one of them and do not question the good of your beliefs and the evil of non believers? This division of good and evil is actually Persian Zoroastrianism. The Jews were a tribe and as some native Americans called themselves the real people, and the Aztecs thought they were God chosen people, the Jews thought they were God's chosen people. In the ancient world everyone had a patron God or Goddess, and it is a real hoot that one tribal God, won out over all others. Christianity is a blend of many beliefs, especially Judaism, Sumerian and Egyptian mythology and Zoroastrianism, making a religion pitted against evil and darkness, and if you are not one of them, you are of the forces of evil and darkness, and this is tied to the Hebrew tribal war God that is jealous, fearsome, punishing and revengeful.

 

Did you not read the links? You are not aware of what 9/11 has to do with the division of Christians and Muslims and the Christian Right's role in electing Bush and Cheney twice? Both sides, Muslims and Christians are mobilizing against each other, and this is very good for the religious organizations. Or in other areas of the world, especially India, the division of Muslims and Hindus that is so much behind the conflict between two nuclear powers, Pakistan and India. Threatened people cleave to their religious leaders and each other, and this makes war good for religion, and religion good for war. Especially when you have a jealous, fearsome, punishing and revengeful God.

 

Republicans didn't just start wars, they manipulated Christians to support Bush, and once again Christians are being mobilized to maintain a war time budget and financial aid to Israel, for military purpose. When we invaded Iraq, media spoke of the shock and awe and power and glory, using religion to mobilize us for war. Our conflict with Iraq began with Saddam's support of the Palestinians and before this, he came to power because he was the US pick and support by the US because of the US's military strategy needs. People are playing deadly power games for control of global resources and markets, and they are using religion. My God, Bush jr. was not a Christian until he decided to run for President. Hello, Bush is a manipulator and the Christians have historical been manipulated. That means we will cut deeper into things like Social Security, and continue to increase military spending. Israel and Baghdad are militarily essential to the control of the mid east, and we want to run a pipe line through Afghanistan.

 

The Social Security cut isn't that bad? I live on less than $700 a month and my Social Security hasn't increased in two years. There is no way I can afford assisted living, and that means I am totally screwed if I can not maintain my independence. A medication I am taking helps me maintain my independence, but cuts into medicare and medicaid could mean I can no longer meet my medical needs. Medicare does not cover dentures, hearing aids, or eye care. Would you like to be toothless, deaf and going blind, and helpless to do anything about correcting these problems as people with more money can do? This is a huge state budget issue, with our state representatives telling us they know people will die because of lack of services, but they have to cut service because there just is no money to for them, and people with incomes as low as mine, can not pay for service, dentures, hearing aids, etc.. Can you imagine needing medical care you can not get, and medicine you can not get, and being so weak you can not mop a floor or safely take a shower alone, and not being able to get help? How long would you want to live under those conditions? In Oregon we have assisted suicide, but life can be really bad, long before a person qualifies for assisted suicide. Christian conservatives seem determined to punish the poor by ignoring their lives of hell, except to give them prays and try to convert them, but then kind of ignore them less they are good paying members of the church.

 

I almost joined a church once, but I couldn't afford it.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Athena

[Brainteaserfan]

This is the 3rd day of my fast and I am not as mentally alert as I need to be, so answering questions is a bite more challenging. During the cold war with the USSR, the US propaganda made a big deal out of the USSR rejecting religion and the US being a nation of God. This is when we added God to our pledge of allegiance. This was extremely helpful in uniting the nation against those Godless communist. At the same time it motivated many citizens to take their threatened Christianity more seriously. Being a good citizen was tied to being a Christian. Religion unites people, and enemies unite people, exaggerating the imagined differences and increasing the need to identify with 'us' and against 'them'. Some ancient Greek guy wrote about what war does to people, and I wish I were smart enough to remember his name and what he said. More recent research observed how conflict leads to exaggerating differences. Like oh God, those Godless people are so terrible and threatening, and there are so many of them. Without God they are under the influence of Satan. They must either be converted or destroyed.

 

Seriously, are you asking the question because you do not know what the people of the God of Abraham religions believe, or because you are one of them and do not question the good of your beliefs and the evil of non believers? This division of good and evil is actually Persian Zoroastrianism. The Jews were a tribe and as some native Americans called themselves the real people, and the Aztecs thought they were God chosen people, the Jews thought they were God's chosen people. In the ancient world everyone had a patron God or Goddess, and it is a real hoot that one tribal God, won out over all others. Christianity is a blend of many beliefs, especially Judaism, Sumerian and Egyptian mythology and Zoroastrianism, making a religion pitted against evil and darkness, and if you are not one of them, you are of the forces of evil and darkness, and this is tied to the Hebrew tribal war God that is jealous, fearsome, punishing and revengeful.

 

Did you not read the links? You are not aware of what 9/11 has to do with the division of Christians and Muslims and the Christian Right's role in electing Bush and Cheney twice? Both sides, Muslims and Christians are mobilizing against each other, and this is very good for the religious organizations. Or in other areas of the world, especially India, the division of Muslims and Hindus that is so much behind the conflict between two nuclear powers, Pakistan and India. Threatened people cleave to their religious leaders and each other, and this makes war good for religion, and religion good for war. Especially when you have a jealous, fearsome, punishing and revengeful God.

 

Republicans didn't just start wars, they manipulated Christians to support Bush, and once again Christians are being mobilized to maintain a war time budget and financial aid to Israel, for military purpose. When we invaded Iraq, media spoke of the shock and awe and power and glory, using religion to mobilize us for war. Our conflict with Iraq began with Saddam's support of the Palestinians and before this, he came to power because he was the US pick and support by the US because of the US's military strategy needs. People are playing deadly power games for control of global resources and markets, and they are using religion. My God, Bush jr. was not a Christian until he decided to run for President. Hello, Bush is a manipulator and the Christians have historical been manipulated. That means we will cut deeper into things like Social Security, and continue to increase military spending. Israel and Baghdad are militarily essential to the control of the mid east, and we want to run a pipe line through Afghanistan.

 

The Social Security cut isn't that bad? I live on less than $700 a month and my Social Security hasn't increased in two years. There is no way I can afford assisted living, and that means I am totally screwed if I can not maintain my independence. A medication I am taking helps me maintain my independence, but cuts into medicare and medicaid could mean I can no longer meet my medical needs. Medicare does not cover dentures, hearing aids, or eye care. Would you like to be toothless, deaf and going blind, and helpless to do anything about correcting these problems as people with more money can do? This is a huge state budget issue, with our state representatives telling us they know people will die because of lack of services, but they have to cut service because there just is no money to for them, and people with incomes as low as mine, can not pay for service, dentures, hearing aids, etc.. Can you imagine needing medical care you can not get, and medicine you can not get, and being so weak you can not mop a floor or safely take a shower alone, and not being able to get help? How long would you want to live under those conditions? In Oregon we have assisted suicide, but life can be really bad, long before a person qualifies for assisted suicide. Christian conservatives seem determined to punish the poor by ignoring their lives of hell, except to give them prays and try to convert them, but then kind of ignore them less they are good paying members of the church.

 

I almost joined a church once, but I couldn't afford it.

Whew, I don't know if I have time to answer all that!

Here goes....

 

Thanks on the first paragraph, that's interesting. From what I've read (could be wrong), has been stuff like this article. Quote "Presser and Chaves determine that attendance has been stable (at about 25%) since the 1990s. That finding challenges the idea that our society is increasingly secular, or that the changes since the 1990s—technological improvements, the increase of scientific knowledge, and urbanization— have any impact on church attendance."

That's from: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/novemberweb-only/145-42.0.html

So, since the fall of the USSR, church/religion/Christianity has remained relatively stable. At many of our schools, Christianity has been, IMO, taught less proportionately than other, less practiced ones.

 

Why are the only two options convert or destroy? I don't view unbelievers that way.

 

Christianity is not a blend of religions, it is the Jewish faith plus the NT (written by men who claimed to follow Jesus around 70ish ad.)

 

I see what you mean by war is good for religion and vice versa. He is not a war god. Those other adjectives I agree with though (except perhaps revengeful, it would depend on your definition. If you're wondering why, well, I love children, therefore I hate abortion. If you love what is righteous/good, you must hate what is bad/evil. I would also use the adjectives loving, faithful etc when describing Him though

 

I'm going to skip the first bold paragraph due to lack of time. Maybe later.

 

No relative or friend would help you if you couldn't maintain your independence?

 

Churches do help those who are not tithing. (at least, my church will if you need it)

 

To me the Social Security cut isn't that bad, because those who I know who receive it do not really need it much. However, I feel your pain with the budget cuts. My parents would like to help me with college expenses, but my father who work for the fed

hasn't received a pay increase for quite a while as well and is looking at a rather bleak pay future.

 

To clarify: I don't like bush or the republicans, but I'm trying to point out that there's plenty of blame to go round.

 

I'm out of time now, and don't know if I'll be able to continue putting much time into this thread, so I may "disappear".

[Athena]

Whew, I don't know if I have time to answer all that!

Here goes....

 

Thanks on the first paragraph, that's interesting. From what I've read (could be wrong), has been stuff like this article. Quote "Presser and Chaves determine that attendance has been stable (at about 25%) since the 1990s. That finding challenges the idea that our society is increasingly secular, or that the changes since the 1990s—technological improvements, the increase of scientific knowledge, and urbanization— have any impact on church attendance."

That's from: http://www.christian...y/145-42.0.html

So, since the fall of the USSR, church/religion/Christianity has remained relatively stable. At many of our schools, Christianity has been, IMO, taught less proportionately than other, less practiced ones.

 

Why are the only two options convert or destroy? I don't view unbelievers that way.

 

Christianity is not a blend of religions, it is the Jewish faith plus the NT (written by men who claimed to follow Jesus around 70ish ad.)

 

I see what you mean by war is good for religion and vice versa. He is not a war god. Those other adjectives I agree with though (except perhaps revengeful, it would depend on your definition. If you're wondering why, well, I love children, therefore I hate abortion. If you love what is righteous/good, you must hate what is bad/evil. I would also use the adjectives loving, faithful etc when describing Him though

 

I'm going to skip the first bold paragraph due to lack of time. Maybe later.

 

No relative or friend would help you if you couldn't maintain your independence?

 

Churches do help those who are not tithing. (at least, my church will if you need it)

 

To me the Social Security cut isn't that bad, because those who I know who receive it do not really need it much. However, I feel your pain with the budget cuts. My parents would like to help me with college expenses, but my father who work for the fed

hasn't received a pay increase for quite a while as well and is looking at a rather bleak pay future.

 

To clarify: I don't like bush or the republicans, but I'm trying to point out that there's plenty of blame to go round.

 

I'm out of time now, and don't know if I'll be able to continue putting much time into this thread, so I may "disappear".

 

Oh my God, those who receive Social Security don't need it? We live in completely different universes. I don't know how to deal with this, as the people I know are highly or completely dependent on Social Security, and the cuts hurt terribly. Many of us qualify for food stamps and other forms of assistance, and go without medical care and medicine. The only way we cover extras like a new pair of shoes, is to cut from our food budget. We do most our clothes shopping at second hand stores.

 

Why do you think you know much about religion? What efforts have you made to be knowledgeable of religion? You jump in here and make an argument, but really how can you back up your argument? I don't know how I should handle such an argument?

 

When it comes to this thread, what is your understanding of why the US supports Israel and what that cost us? What is your understanding of why Saddam stopped getting along with the US and went from being supported by the US and given arms and training to fight Iran, to being killed by the US? Do you understand, the 1973 oil embargo, was about OPEC embargoing oil to the US because they sided with Palestine? Saddam was also siding with Palestine. Why should we oppose Palestine and support Israel? How can the people of the US make good decisions without understanding what they are about? Zionist Christians having a convention in DC when the budget is on the line is a more important than some realize.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Athena