we need help

[ifkosher]

Hi As an orthedox jewish community we abide to certain religious dietary laws. Permitted foods are called kosher. Foods that contain WHOLE insects of any form are not permitted. This includes dead whole insects of any kind and type. Obviously we study different fruits and vegetables for common infestation. We are searching and cant find any sciencetist who can help us, to have equiptment that can sense if there are insects in a given food. This would enable us to keep Kosher in a easy and effient manner. We ask you if you could help us in information of an idea of producing such an type of sensor. We believe that we will mutually benefit in such an endeaver. pleaes reply by email if you could help me thanks. Ifkosher@gmail.com________________________________Rabbi M.kalich

[CaptainPanic]

First of all, I hope you'll still be fine after this thread. I really do not want to permanently change your diet... but at the same time, I do not see a solution for you. You will eat insects sometimes. Everybody does.

 

First things we need to know: does it matter whether insects are dead or alive?

Second of all: are we talking about insects only, or all little creepy crawlers, including spiders, worms, etc.

I guess at least microorganisms are excluded?

 

The problem is that the world's smallest insect is only 0.1 mm big. The smallest beetle (which is btw also an insect) is 0.3 mm big. The smallest anthropod is even smaller though: 85 micrometres (0.0033 in). Some plant parasites (eriophyid) are only about 100 micrometers. And the eggs of the common fruit fly are just 0.5 mm long.

 

Life forms can be incredibly small! Life is everywhere. Food producers do their very best to keep your food clean and safe, but life really gets everywhere. The food producers can make sure that everything is dead... but they cannot guarantee that there are no whole insects. Obviously, certain types of food are practically guaranteed free of insects, because of the way it's produced. But I do not know how to guarantee that for fresh food.

 

Unless you really search every bite you take with a microscope, I am not sure what method there is to guarantee that no whole insects are found in/on your food, while excluding dead and processed insects. You can't check for any chemicals if you specifically want to find the whole insects. It has to be a visual inspection, and as I just explained, that's pretty difficult.

 

There are methods to make sure that nothing survives (for example, a homogenizer (essentially a super-blender) will destroy individual cells - that makes sure that not even the smallest insects will remain in 1 piece... but I am afraid that if you use this, you will drink protein shakes for the rest of your life, for breakfast, lunch and dinner).

 

Maybe I exaggerate the problem. Anyway, wash your food. Good luck.

[Dekan]

Hi As an orthedox jewish community we abide to certain religious dietary laws. Permitted foods are called kosher. Foods that contain WHOLE insects of any form are not permitted. This includes dead whole insects of any kind and type. Obviously we study different fruits and vegetables for common infestation. We are searching and cant find any sciencetist who can help us, to have equiptment that can sense if there are insects in a given food. This would enable us to keep Kosher in a easy and effient manner. We ask you if you could help us in information of an idea of producing such an type of sensor. We believe that we will mutually benefit in such an endeaver. pleaes reply by email if you could help me thanks. Ifkosher@gmail.com________________________________Rabbi M.kalich

 

What exactly is meant by "whole insect"? Does it mean an insect, that is completely intact. It still has all of its bodily parts. No parts, such as legs, wings, even bits of carapace, have been removed.

 

If so, need you worry about processed foods. Such as bread. Even if a completely intact insect gets into the original grain, won't the process of grinding, milling, baking, etc, mutilate it? Some bits of the insect, are bound to get removed - by being knocked off, or burned off.

 

So the finished bread may contain a mutilated insect. But don't the mutilations make it a less than "whole" insect - so it should be OK?

 

And the same reasoning applies to any food that has undergone any form of processing.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Dekan

[ewmon]

Hi As an orthedox jewish community we abide to certain religious dietary laws. ... Foods that contain WHOLE insects of any form are not permitted. This includes dead whole insects of any kind and type.

... We are searching and cant find any sciencetist who can help us, to have equiptment that can sense if there are insects in a given food.

Keeping a kosher kitchen is difficult, and science doesn't make it any easier. In fact, it probably makes it more difficult. Almost everything measured scientifically is measured indirectly. Some examples:

1. A radar gun used by the police does not measure speed directly, but instead, it measures the change in frequency of the reflected radar signal caused by the speed of the car.
   
2. Thermostats that control furnaces do not measure temperature directly, but instead, they measure the bending that the temperature causes to a device that contains two metals.
   
3. Those metal detection wands at airports don't detect metal directly, but sense changes in electronic circuits due to the proximity of metallic objects that interfere with those circuits.
   

The solution to your query is for someone to learn what there is about insects that a machine can detect. So for kosher foods, there's no machine that directly detects insects, per se. Instead...

1. You might use a sound-proof box containing a sensitive microphone that listens for insects chewing.
   
2. Or, if insects produce a unique airborne chemical, a chemical sensor might detect it.
   
3. Or if insect dung contains a chemical unique to insects, testing the grain "dust" on the bottom of a grain container would detect its presence.
   

Alternately, someone might investigate how foods were determined to be kosher historically. What did people do 100, 200 or even 300 years ago? And why aren't those methods sufficient for today? Perhaps also consider the methods available when your scriptures where written. Perhaps God deemed such methods as "good enough". Was every grain inspected to ensure that it wasn't an insect cocoon? I doubt it. Perhaps the grain was poured out onto a surface and generally pushed around and examined. I also suggest that you check if your scriptures say whether to endeavor to find more accurate ways of detecting insects. I mean, if it was good enough for great-great-great-great-grandma, it should be good enough for us. Rabbi, this is something I think is truly worth considering.