Sudan Crisis: World needs to do something

[bloodhound]

And the only country in the world capable of doing something is US (sorry to place the burden on your shoulders once again)

 

70,000 have died in refugee camps

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041015/ap_on_re_af/un_darfur_2

 

The thing is, if Bush, Blair made a case for war on basis of Human rights violations, it would have been more legitimate than one based on sketchy, outdated intelligence exptrapolated and wildly spun.

 

What I would Like the US to to is to present of UN resolution for a case on liberating SUDAN, on the basis of the atrocious situation right now. I think i speak for all of us here , that this move would be very welcome. and most of the world would be truly supporting the action because we have SEEN the terrible state of life via news.

 

US needs to lead.

 

(or any other country for example UK)

We all know UN is doomed.

[drz]

That is the truth there. It sickens me we wasted so much resources on Iraq, instead of putting them to work for liberating these tortured people.

 

My question, does the US even have the capability of doing anything?

[bloodhound]

I dont consider Iraq as a waste resources, its just in trouble rite now because of the way the case for war was put together. Unfortunately US forces are way over streched rite now.

[Douglas]

And the only country in the world capable of doing something is US (sorry to place the burden on your shoulders once again

Yeah Bloodhound, it's a real disaster over there.

The U.S. is the largest contributor to the U.N. World Food Program and to date has provided more than 186,000 metric tons of food aid for Darfur, valued at more than $170 million.

http://www.usaid.gov/press/releases/2004/pr041014.html

 

The funding and supplies augment resources for life-saving medical care, shelter, food aid and emergency coordination and logistics. Total U.S. assistance for the Darfur humanitarian crisis now stands at more than $302 million.

I'm sure this isn't enough money, we should contribute more.

One problem as I see it, is the amount of money that will get ripped off by the assholes that run the country. Kind've like the billion dollar "oil for food" scandal.....no food for the Iraqui rank and file, but plenty of oil and money for Russia, France and China.

[bloodhound]

but plenty of oil and money for Russia, France and China.

tsk tsk.. does it always have to come down to this?

[Douglas]

tsk tsk.. does it always have to come down to this?

Yes, tsk tsk tsk... seems like it always comes down to that. A few years ago the U.S. gave Haiti say...300 million quid to help feed the starving people......yup, you guessed it, not a single shilling made it to the people. The U.S. tried to investigate.....got nowhere.

[bloodhound]

but surely 300 million quid had some sort of strings attached to them

[Phi for All]

I'd still like to know what the $43M Bush gave to the Taliban in May 2001 got used for. It was supposed to keep Afghani farmers from growing opium. Since we attacked, the farmers have gone right back to their best-known cash crop.

 

Here's an idea that may shed some light on Arab ally loyalty and end questions about the Bush family ties to the House of Saud: Let the Saudis lead a UN coalition force out of Chad into the Sudan to round up the Janjaweed forces the Sudan government claims they don't support.

[Douglas]

but surely 300 million quid had some sort of strings attached to them

To my knowledge, no strings at all. Bill O'reilly was investigating and hit a brick wall

Phi for all.........I'd still like to know what the $43M Bush gave to the Taliban in May 2001 got used for. It was supposed to keep Afghani farmers from growing opium. Since we attacked, the farmers have gone right back to their best-known cash crop.

The 43 million quid probably went for Ak 47's and other goodies.

Here's an idea that may shed some light on Arab ally loyalty and end questions about the Bush family ties to the House of Saud: Let the Saudis lead a UN coalition force out of Chad into the Sudan to round up the Janjaweed forces the Sudan government claims they don't support.

It's ok with me.

[Pangloss]

I would be okay with sending troops to the Sudan as part of a UN peacekeeping effort.

[Pangloss]

By the way, if you don't think the US would draw more fire on the International front if it proposed intervention in Sudan, think again:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/18/international/africa/18sudan.html

 

That article (in the New York Times) says that Libya, Sudan (of course), Egypt, Nigeria and Chad are all opposed to any such intervention in this "purely African question".

 

Of course, they said nothing about the CURRENT UN peacekeeping efforts in "purely African questions", like Liberia and Ethiopia. Gee, I wonder why.

[Mad Mardigan]

At one time Sudan offered Bin Laden to the US 3 times, and Bill Clinton responded the last time by blowing up one of there pharmacies and prevented many needed vaccines to be allowed to go to help Africa. Because the CIA had used Bin Laden on a few differ occasions to blow up differ sites to draw attention from his affairs, and to help start differ levels of control.

 

In related news, Rosevelt allowed the bombing of Pearl Harbor to create a new world order (UN). The war wasnt big enough at the time, and it needed a big boost, but that didnt happen until the WWII.

 

Then Saddam was put in power by the CIA to help control the region, but got out of hand when there money line was hurt and needed to attack the rich nation of Kuwaitt.

 

But all of that said, maybe Sudan doesnt have anything to offer yet.

 

All of that said

[pi_of_9]

That is the truth there. It sickens me we wasted so much resources on Iraq, instead of putting them to work for liberating these tortured people.

 

The U.S. forces just found another mass grave in Iraq. The Iraqi people weren't tortured? Have you read about the tortured athletes that didn't perform to expectations under Saddam's regime?

 

The problem with Sudan is that the whole region is so unstable, if the U.S. went in, forces would be in place for decades. The U.S. does not need to be there any more than it needed to be in Iraq.

 

Let the U.N. deal with it.

[budullewraagh]

 

Quote:

That is the truth there. It sickens me we wasted so much resources on Iraq, instead of putting them to work for liberating these tortured people.

 

 

The U.S. forces just found another mass grave in Iraq. The Iraqi people weren't tortured? Have you read about the tortured athletes that didn't perform to expectations under Saddam's regime?

dude, this is totally different. hussein's last killing spree was 5,000 kurds in 1995. as of now, we have mass genocide. there's quite a difference. plus, theres the whole economics issue

[Pangloss]

What economics issue?

[TimeTraveler]

I am suprised this thread did not recieve more attention a few months ago when it was posted. I was going to start a thread but found this one on search so I will try to re-open the discussion about situations in Sudan, and other places throughout the world were attrocities are taking place.

 

This is stuff that needs to be talked about and figured out by the international community. The UN in particular has no set definition on what constitutes genocide, I think it is a term more try to avoid than anything.

 

We read about hitler or the holocaust, we think how horrible a period that was and wish something like that did not happen.

 

It is still happening. These are people, human beings. They walk, they talk, they feel, they love, they eat, they care, they cry, they smile, they want, they need, they struggle, they learn, they know, they think, they laugh, they try, they work, they sleep, they nurture, they hope, they wish, they touch, they taste, they hurt and they wonder. They are just like you.

 

They are not a number. I know you know that, but sometimes we need to be reminded.

 

There is no excuse for inaction that is more important than stopping this.

[Phi for All]

I have to believe that the US intelligence community knows far more about this situation than they are telling. Since 9/11, the USAF has at least two RC-135 AWAC planes in the region capable of monitoring whether the Sudanese government was sending air strikes against ground targets before Janjawid raids occured. This info would tell us once and for all if Khartoum is involved with the Janjawid.

 

I think the USAF knows but doesn't want to act on the info.

[Aardvark]

I am suprised this thread did not recieve more attention a few months ago when it was posted. I was going to start a thread but found this one on search so I will try to re-open the discussion about situations in Sudan, and other places throughout the world were attrocities are taking place.

 

I absolutely agree. It seems like if somethings not in the media it doesn't exist.

 

Iraq and the Tsunami are reported heavily in the media so everyone worries about them, but when you mention that thousands of people are suffering and dying right now in Sudan no one seems to give a damn.

 

There are no pictures on TV so therefore these people don't exist. Just how shallow can the human race get?

[Aardvark]

I think the USAF knows but doesn't want to act on the info.

 

Of course they know. But the only reason they would have to act is public pressure. And the public will only care if they see pictures on the TV. The area is too far away and uncomfortable for journalists so that's not going to happen.

 

If there were some 4 star hotels in the area then there would be a major international relief effort there right now.

[Aardvark]

Timetraveller, for more than 20 years the Muslim north of Sudan has tried to impose Sharia law on the entire country. In response the Animist and Christian South tried to break away.

 

This has resulted in a bloody, brutal conflict of ethnic cleansing. The north has the advantage of superior weaponary and has used such tactics as atteacking villages with helicopters to drive all inhabitants out of a region before sending in troops to 'clear up'.

 

Slavery has been clearly established. with northern troops abducting captured women. This is an officially approved tactic to both reward soldiers and spread fear in the Southerners.

 

The North has also engaged in blockading the South, using hunger as a weapon of war. The more people who die or are driven away the weaker the South becomes.

 

However, recently the two main rebel groups in the South have joined forces and the Northern government has been forced into a ceasefire. The Southern rebels are now atempting to rebuild some semblance of civilisation. They have no tools, equipment, money and little food. Bascially they are starting from ground zero with many thousands of desperate refugees, burnt villages and mines scattered randomnly across the country. All this whilst a shaky ceasefire holds with no guarantee that it will last.

 

All this has been completely ignored by everyone. If people had any rational system of evaluting need than there might be some sort of relief for the displaced refugees in Southern Sudan. Maybe some pressure would have been brought on the Sudanese government not to deliberately target civilians.

 

This has been happening for decades. Why does no one know about it? Why does no one care?

[Tetrahedrite]

It all bodes very badly for us westerners as human beings, doesn't it!

[Haezed]

I note that this thread started in 2004 and still the atrocities continue. What should be done?

[ParanoiA]

I note that this thread started in 2004 and still the atrocities continue. What should be done?

 

 

Well let's see...if we go in and do something we'll be called imperialists and the western media will say we're creating more terrorists. The terror sponsored states will use this to further their propaganda goals. When we finally get things under control, if we get things under control (I'm not convinced terrorism won't rise in the area) our thanks will be in the form of protests and rallies to get us out of there...yeah, you're welcome...

 

If we don't go in, we're heartless jerkoffs that only fight wars when there's money or similar such "material" assets to spill blood over..

 

Seems like an easy decision to me. I'm sorry they're suffering, but we're damned if we do and damned if we don't so why bother? Less negatives associated with sitting here watching them die.

 

That's what the international community has taught me. I watched and I listened to them. Without the latest few years of events to judge from, I might be inclined to be stupid and advocate going in and helping those people....

[Phi for All]

I note that this thread started in 2004 and still the atrocities continue. What should be done?

Raise public awareness to the point where it becomes an election issue. Then force sanctions of every imaginable kind.

 

I'm tired of US invasions but this would be an instance where we could be the good guys we imagine ourselves to be.

[Sisyphus]

I dunno, peacekeeping tends to have more international approval than invasion or supporting one side in a civil war. Just start wearing those blue helmets. Or even not. France, for example, currently has 35,000 troops deployed in various peacekeeping roles around the world, and they don't get any flak for it.