Violation of conservation of energy w/ wormhole travel?

[containscotton]

I know wormhole travel is supposed to be theoretical and unproven, but what is the explanation by proponents of wormhole travel for the fact that the "instantaneous" movement from one space to another has frames in the past, therefore sending information not only back into the past but also making the universe at that moment of time have more energy than it did previously? Or did I misunderstand something?

 

Sorry about my English. It's not my first language.

[questionposter]

A wormhole does not violate anything because it doesn't "create" anything, it simply brings two points of 3 dimension or 4 dimension space (or both) together at another singular point, which is why diagrams often describe it as a bending of the fabric of space. All your doing is moving the position of space and time. Time in special relativity is its own dimension that occupies all of space, it doesn't get created or destroyed, it simply moves or flows in its own 4 dimensional manners.

Edited August 13, 2011 by questionposter

[containscotton]

Sorry, most of that flew over my head.

 

A wormhole does not violate anything because it doesn't "create" anything

 

I never said it did, I was confused about it bringing information into the past.

 

it simply brings two points of 3 dimension or 4 dimension space (or both) together at another singular same point

 

What, is there a third point now? Even so, if it's in the same universe, doesn't the frame in the past still apply to the universe?

 

which is why diagrams often describe it as a bending of the fabric of space. All your doing is moving the position of space and time. Time in special relativity is its own dimension that occupies all of space, it doesn't get created or destroyed, it simply moves or flows in its own 4 dimensional manners.

 

Can you specifically define what it means to move the position of spacetime?

[questionposter]

What, is there a third point now? Even so, if it's in the same universe, doesn't the frame in the past still apply to the universe?

Well, your bringing one point to the other then, as long as both are occupying the same point, it doesn't matter where that point that they meet is.

 

 

Can you specifically define what it means to move the position of spacetime?

 

 

It's not much different than bringing two corners of a piece of paper together. With time, your bringing two coordinates of time together at the same dimensional point, so two different coordinates of time I imagine would be dates like in march 21st, 1995 and today. Since its still the same fabric of time, both dates are just points in 4 dimensional space, there's nothing being created or destroyed.

Edited August 13, 2011 by questionposter

[DrRocket]

I know wormhole travel is supposed to be theoretical and unproven, but what is the explanation by proponents of wormhole travel for the fact that the "instantaneous" movement from one space to another has frames in the past, therefore sending information not only back into the past but also making the universe at that moment of time have more energy than it did previously? Or did I misunderstand something?

 

Sorry about my English. It's not my first language.

 

There is no global notion of time in general relativity, so there is no "moment of time" that applies to the entire universe.

 

Conservation of energy in general relativity holds at a point, but not over a finite volume.

[questionposter]

There is no global notion of time in general relativity, so there is no "moment of time" that applies to the entire universe.

 

Conservation of energy in general relativity holds at a point, but not over a finite volume.

 

 

Well maybe not in "general" relativity, but what about "special" relativity where wormholes can actually occur? In special relativity there is in fact a fabric or medium for events that consists of 3 dimension space + the dimension of time which effects matter and our perception of time like with time dilation.

Edited August 13, 2011 by questionposter

[J.C.MacSwell]

Well maybe not in "general" relativity, but what about "special" relativity where wormholes can actually occur? In special relativity there is in fact a fabric or medium for events that consists of 3 dimension space + the dimension of time which effects matter and our perception of time like with time dilation.

 

They cannot occur in special relativity. "Special" in this case is a more restricted set of rules and does not allow space-time to fold back on itself. "General" may allow it, though I suspect reality may not.

[questionposter]

They cannot occur in special relativity. "Special" in this case is a more restricted set of rules and does not allow space-time to fold back on itself. "General" may allow it, though I suspect reality may not.

 

Isn't general relativity the thing that predicts a fabric of space-time and provides a diagram for black holes which wormholes were based off of? Isn't it that they are possible but they would collapse too fast?

Edited August 13, 2011 by questionposter

[J.C.MacSwell]

Isn't general relativity the thing that predicts a fabric of space-time and provides a diagram for black holes which wormholes were based off of? Isn't it that they are possible but they would collapse too fast?

 

I think (have read) wormholes can be described mathematically in GR, which would possibly give a basis for time travel. (I doubt they occur in reality)

 

You stated that they can actually occur in SR, unless I misread what you meant by "special".