Is a photon actually "pure" energy?

[questionposter]

I've heard photons described as electro-magnetic waves, waves of momentum, pure momentum, pure energy, etc.

 

But with mass, matter carrier of mass, but there is suppose to be some particle that causes mass and causes a distortion of the fabric of space?

 

So, is there a principal particle that comprises photons, or are photons pure energy? In which case, why can't we just say energy is an actual substance?

Edited August 15, 2011 by questionposter

[Klaynos]

I've heard photons described as electro-magnetic waves, waves of momentum, pure momentum, pure energy, etc.

 

Electro-magnetic waves is accurate. They have properties, such as momentum, energy, wavelength and spin.

 

But with mass, matter carrier of mass, but there is suppose to be some particle that causes mass and causes a distortion of the fabric of space?

 

Mass is another property, you seem to be alluring to the Higgs field, this field if it exists, results in the property of inertial mass. Mass can also be considered to be another form of energy.

 

So, is there a principal particle that comprises photons,

 

No, they are fundamental particles.

 

or are photons pure energy?

 

No, they have a property of energy.

 

In which case, why can't we just say energy is an actual substance?

 

Because it's not a substance, it's a property, many things can have energy in lots of different forms.

[ajb]

People informally think of the photon as pure energy, but this is not really the way to think. Energy is a property of waves and particles. Classically you think of the waves ("ripples") in the electromagnetic field as carrying energy. It is a property of the configuration.

 

If you think about waves in the sea you notice that they do not actually transport much water. The thing they are transporting is energy. In this sense you may also hear people say that waves are energy. But I still would rather say that energy is a property of the configuration and that waves transport energy.

[questionposter]

So a photon is it's own particle, but how come whenever an electron jumps to a lower energy level, the energy is released in the form of a photon? Why does this new "photon" "particle" have to be created? Where does all this extra particle-ness come from? What's wrong with just pure energy?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

So a photon is it's own particle, but how come whenever an electron jumps to a lower energy level, the energy is released in the form of a photon? Why does this new "photon" "particle" have to be created? Where does all this extra particle-ness come from? What's wrong with just pure energy?

As swansont said, energy is a property and not a thing. This is like asking why you can't create pure tall. You can't have pure tall; you can just have very tall things.

[timo]

As swansont said, energy is a property and not a thing. This is like asking why you can't create pure tall. You can't have pure tall; you can just have very tall things.

But if I add bricks on top of a wall then the wall becomes higher, which I can continue until I have no brick left. Therefore a brick must be pure tall!

[swansont]

So a photon is it's own particle, but how come whenever an electron jumps to a lower energy level, the energy is released in the form of a photon? Why does this new "photon" "particle" have to be created? Where does all this extra particle-ness come from? What's wrong with just pure energy?

A photon, which has energy, is released. There is no conservation of particle-ness for bosons; crunch all you want, we'll make more.

 

Saying it's pure energy eventually leads to conceptual troubles — the model is wrong, and it will start giving you wrong answers when you try and apply it.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Farsight's hijack attempt moved http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/59218-pure-energy/page__pid__622023#entry622023

[Cygnus47]

 

why can't we just say energy is an actual substance?

Energy is an attribute of the photon just like energy is an attribute of all matter including the proton. Now, if the electron were pure energy, we would have to assume the same for the proton because both have this attribute. Because the proton and the electron have vastly different characteristics, namely different charges and different masses, this can't be true.

 

Energy is the attribute that alters the state of being, and can't be thought of as a particle or a wave. Energy can produce a wave in the fabric of space but the wave itself is not the energy. The wave is the result of energy changing the shape of space. So you see, the cause for the change and the resultant shape are not the same.

[khaled]

Energy and matter, Particle and wave, boson and fermion .. isn't there still something missing in there ?!

 

How magnetism and electromagnetism really works through matter, I think understanding such thing on the atomic level would explain alot ...

Edited August 31, 2011 by khaled