Brain transplants

[Appolinaria]

So if not everyone who is diagnosed with BIID has neurological damage like you're saying, then neurological damage isn't necessary for BIID... then it can still occur without transplanting a brain that shows differences in the parietal cortex.

 

If BIID is not an innate problem stemming from the same neurological difference in all people who have it, if the neurological difference is not the cause, if we don't even know the cause, then my argument on how a surgery can bring on BIID is right.

 

Neurological differences in the parietal cortex are another symptom of BIID, not a cause.... therefore there is no reason why someone with a healthy brain transplanted into them couldn't develop BIID.

[Psycho]

So if not everyone who is diagnosed with BIID has neurological damage like you're saying, then neurological damage isn't necessary for BIID... then it can still occur without transplanting a brain that shows differences in the parietal cortex.

 

If BIID is not an innate problem stemming from the same neurological difference in all people who have it, if the neurological difference is not the cause, if we don't even know the cause, then my argument on how a surgery can bring on BIID is right.

 

Neurological differences in the parietal cortex are another symptom of BIID, not a cause.... therefore there is no reason why someone with a healthy brain transplanted into them couldn't develop BIID.

That isn't what I said, I said the cause of BIID hasn't been ascertained, it could be entirely neurological or entirely psychological or both could have relevant effects.

 

Also neurological differences cause psychological disorders, not the other way round, the only reason most psychological disorders can't be treated through pharmaceuticals is due to the complex chemistry and complex nature of the brain creating a situation where there are to many variables to be control or aren't understood at the molecular level.

 

The interesting thing about BIID is that traditional psychological therapies don't seem to have any effect, superficially implying it has an underlying structural basis.

 

A good source

 

BIID is unlikely to be a problem if you changed bodies as it has been shown to be present from childhood/adolescence though an underlying cause has not been found, there is no reason to concluded that a person who acquired a new body would find it "more complete" if part of it was removed unless they have had these feeling before hand. From the article there seems to be no encompassing reasoning for wanting it removed, some are fascinated by amputation, some sexual aroused, some want the perfect body, but at no point would any of these reasonings substantiate due to a change of body.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Psycho

[Appolinaria]

okay so youre saying yes, it can be psychological, but because of the fact that it usually comes from birth it is usually not brought on by anything... which points to the fact that it probably originates from a neurological discrepancy? i see, thats a good point. so symptoms of biid might occur in a transplant but its not biid because its not originating from adolescence? until we have a cause for biid, i cant assume or correlate it with what might occur in a brain transplant.

[Psycho]

okay so youre saying yes, it can be psychological, but because of the fact that it usually comes from birth it is usually not brought on by anything... which points to the fact that it probably originates from a neurological discrepancy? i see, thats a good point. so symptoms of biid might occur in a transplant but its not biid because its not originating from adolescence? until we have a cause for biid, i cant assume or correlate it with what might occur in a brain transplant.

I'm not saying it isn't brought on by something however that phenomenon probably occurs in childhood and its importance is over-extrapolated by the brain, which is unlikely to occur in a mature mind. A more familiar example would be somebody eating food and then becoming sick they therefore blame the food on the sickness even if they know it wasn't the cause, this is a defence mechanism to stop you doing it again however the wrong entity can be attributed the wrong characteristics, in the case of BIID it would be becoming an amputee and that being a good or attractive ideal.

 

What would probably occur in a brain transplant is that the person wouldn't be able to handle looking in the mirror and seeing a stranger looking back at them, therefore they would lose all form of identity, everyone they have ever met wouldn't recognise them and without a lot of counselling consistent exposure to this could cause a person to form the opinion that they aren't really who they think they are or never were that person.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Psycho

[Chap]

Just my ideas....

I agree that if we are able to duplicate a brain; all its neurons, synapses and the overall layout, then the brain probably can be implanted into a person, without any risk of the brain getting rejected (assuming of course we find a technology which will allow us to re-connect ALL the neurons to their respective synapses in the body) However, we should understand that the brain is also believed to partly function through action of chemicals. The types of chemicals, the quantity and the locations of these chemicals involved in brain function should also be duplicated.

 

Even if we can duplicate the chemicals themselves, still the brain may not function as intended. This is because the brain function also depends upon stimuli from other parts of the body. Assume I am 80 years old and nearing death and I want to implant my brain to a younger clone of myself, say 20 years old. I somehow clone my younger body and then insert my brain (80 year old one) into the younger body. Will the younger clone behave exactly like the 80 year old me?

 

I don't think so, as the younger clone has a lot of testosterone in his body (for instance). The sex drive in him will be way stronger than in me. Sure, he may have my experience and knowledge, but we have to understand that the brain doesn't necessarily control ALL the functions in a person's body. The sex drive in particular will be VERY powerful, so the person's overall actions will be modified by that.

[Ahsan Iqbal]

Brain transplants!

Well, you should call it human transformation....

 

I think their is nothing impossible and there would be one day when we would be able to transplant brains. But just think about the consequences. It is the brain that makes us what we are. I know a person as my father because I have memories of that person acting as a father to me. stored in my brain since I was born. My name is "Ahsan Iqbal" because it is stored in my brain that everyone calls me by this name. I am writing this post because there is some portion of my brain that compels me to do it.

And every person has a different brain with different memories, different likings, different dis-likings etc. And all of this is the property of the brain exclusively. So if I receive someone else's brain, would I remain what I am now. Or would I be transformed in what the original owner of the brain was? The answer should be simple.

 

So brain transplant would mean transformation from one person to another, keeping your old shape and form.

[Green Xenon]

I wonder if a brain transplant would be like a soul transplant. If Mr. A were to successfully have his brain wired into Mr. B's body and then look into the mirror, would Mr. A see Mr. B's face? I guess so. In this case a brain-transplant could be defined as a "total-body transplant" or "mind transplant".

 

But then how are true out-of-body-experiences explained?

 

In medical facilities, there are often patients who are in situations where their brains are deprived of oxygen [due sometimes to cardiac arrest]. In these cases, such a patient can sense beyond the normal range of human perception -- such as in other rooms of the hospital or even outside the hospital. What such a patient perceives is often confirmed by real events. In addition, patients who are born blind can see during this OBE and patients born deaf can hear.

 

What are the scientific explanations for the above interesting facts?

 

How can one perceive beyond normal sensory mechanisms?

 

How can one born without sight be able to see during an OBE?

 

How can one born without hearing be able to hear during an OBE?

 

Sorry if this is OT.

 

 

Thanks,

 

GX

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Green Xenon, you've been warned about thread hijacking in the past. If you keep it up, you will be suspended.

[Kranis]

Cant transplant a brain, if you do that would not be you, not your brain, not your control, a totally different person will come up.

[Ringer]

Cant transplant a brain, if you do that would not be you, not your brain, not your control, a totally different person will come up.

 

Any particular reason, or even better evidence, for this assertions?

[Kranis]

Any particular reason, or even better evidence, for this assertions?

 

Common sense, think about it, the brain IS you, its Your database, if you were to get someone else's brain, it would not be you, and you might even be brain dead, your body might even negate the brain being there and kill you.

[zapatos]

Common sense, think about it, the brain IS you, its Your database, if you were to get someone else's brain, it would not be you, and you might even be brain dead, your body might even negate the brain being there and kill you.

So in what way does 'it would not be you' make the transplant operation impossible?

[Kranis]

So in what way does 'it would not be you' make the transplant operation impossible?

 

Well learn some things about your brain before deciding to put someone else's brain in that spot.

[zapatos]

Well learn some things about your brain before deciding to put someone else's brain in that spot.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are telling me. Can you please rephrase?

[Kranis]

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are telling me. Can you please rephrase?

 

Do some research on the brain and what makes up the brain and how it works, you can find your answer like that.

[zapatos]

Do some research on the brain and what makes up the brain and how it works, you can find your answer like that.

Well, that's one way to go.

 

On the other hand, you are the one who said a brain transplant can't be done. It seems reasonable therefore that you should back up your claim rather than make me do it. Either that or don't make the claim in the first place.

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Kranis, if you'd like to open up a philosophical thread about identity, please do so. This is starting to get off topic.

[Moontanman]

Brain transplants, will it ever be possible to do it? Probably, but you are your brain, if you want your brain transplanted into a new body it would be you. not the person the body came from. If you wanted a new brain and transplanted it into your body it would no longer be you, it would be who ever the brain came from, you are your brain! Why is this so difficult?

 

For a really odd take on this read this book by Robert Heinlein.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fear_No_Evil

[Ringer]

Common sense, think about it, the brain IS you, its Your database, if you were to get someone else's brain, it would not be you, and you might even be brain dead, your body might even negate the brain being there and kill you.

 

. . . I don't believe anyone said anything about getting a new brain. If your brain was successfully transplanted into a new body it would still be you, though motor and sensory neurons would need to be established and integrated into the new body. I would assume a brain transplant procedure would take that into account though.

[Fanghur]

Any particular reason why transplanting a brain would be impossible?

 

Whether we will have the technological capability to successfully transplant a brain, the point is moot. Organ transplants are meant to save a person's life. And everything a person is, their sentience, their mind, their soul, call it whatever you like, is located in THEIR brain. Transplanting another brain into a human will necessarily destroy the original 'soul'.

[zapatos]

Whether we will have the technological capability to successfully transplant a brain, the point is moot. Organ transplants are meant to save a person's life. And everything a person is, their sentience, their mind, their soul, call it whatever you like, is located in THEIR brain. Transplanting another brain into a human will necessarily destroy the original 'soul'.

I disagree. If my body is giving out, my heart and kidneys failing, transplanting my brain into another body will save my life. My sentience, mind, soul, whatever you want to call it, is in my brain. Therefore the transplant will save my life.

[iNow]

I disagree. If my body is giving out, my heart and kidneys failing, transplanting my brain into another body will save my life. My sentience, mind, soul, whatever you want to call it, is in my brain. Therefore the transplant will save my life.

The primary challenge I have with this is that your brain is much more than just the cortex and hypothalamic/amydala regions. Your "brain" is one component of a much larger system, and there would be some malfunctions if you did not account for the aggregate of your entire nervous system... which includes your spine, extremities, etc... when discussing such transplants.

 

I found some interesting stuff here on a quick glance, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_transplant

[Ringer]

Whether we will have the technological capability to successfully transplant a brain, the point is moot. Organ transplants are meant to save a person's life. And everything a person is, their sentience, their mind, their soul, call it whatever you like, is located in THEIR brain. Transplanting another brain into a human will necessarily destroy the original 'soul'.

 

So you are going to ignore that I already stated we are not talking about, say, giving me a new brain and expecting it to be me, but putting my brain in another body and it still being me?

[Kranis]

Well, that's one way to go.

 

On the other hand, you are the one who said a brain transplant can't be done. It seems reasonable therefore that you should back up your claim rather than make me do it. Either that or don't make the claim in the first place.

 

I don't have to back my claim up when its so freaking simple, You cant live with someone else's brain, DNA wise, database wise, all the info is stored in your brain of what you know, if you lost your brain and tried to get someone else's it will not be you, its simple, now if your brain lives and you need a new body, that might be possible in the future, as of right now it doesn't make sense to take in someone else's brain into your body...

[zapatos]

I don't have to back my claim up when its so freaking simple, You cant live with someone else's brain, DNA wise, database wise, all the info is stored in your brain of what you know, if you lost your brain and tried to get someone else's it will not be you, its simple, now if your brain lives and you need a new body, that might be possible in the future, as of right now it doesn't make sense to take in someone else's brain into your body...

You should reread the thread to see what everyone has said.