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Telepathy - it works or maybe not?


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I am Neurology student , today I get email from one person that can use telepathy.

Is it possible that telepathy works on the distance of few kilometer?

I can not find any official document on any existing person today that can use telepathy

but I found Vinko Rajic and Uri Geller and they are talking that they can use telepathy.

Why they do not make research on it? Many Schizophrenic are coming with similar story.

Can it be that some Schizophrenics are just receiving from some other head?

James Randi offer 1000000$ for evidence, but Vinko and Uri can use telepathy or maybe NOT?

 

There is not scientific evidence for telepathy. Why this telepathy madness?

At Edinburgh University, experts conducted controlled experiments to see if telepathy is possible.

Many "Schizophrenic" believe that they have main contact with other people.

Vinko maybe can give evidence for it but why they do not make an experiment with Vinko or Uri Geller?

 

I think it would be very important confirm existence of telepathy if it works with some living person

on the Earth.

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He is obliged to do so. Even requires that there are unbiased observers, as much as media and such can be unbiased, are there so he cannot shirk after the fact. He also is required to have the money he is offering in a bank account at all times while offering the prize or else he couldn't write it off for his foundation. So what reason does he have to not give it sense it's just sitting in a bank and he is contractually required to do so?

 

We dealt with Vinko and found him, to be nice, much less than convincing of any of his claims.

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I am Neurology student , today I get email from one person that can use telepathy.

Is it possible that telepathy works on the distance of few kilometer?

I can not find any official document on any existing person today that can use telepathy

but I found Vinko Rajic and Uri Geller and they are talking that they can use telepathy.

Why they do not make research on it? Many Schizophrenic are coming with similar story.

Can it be that some Schizophrenics are just receiving from some other head?

James Randi offer 1000000$ for evidence, but Vinko and Uri can use telepathy or maybe NOT?

 

There is not scientific evidence for telepathy. Why this telepathy madness?

At Edinburgh University, experts conducted controlled experiments to see if telepathy is possible.

Many "Schizophrenic" believe that they have main contact with other people.

Vinko maybe can give evidence for it but why they do not make an experiment with Vinko or Uri Geller?

 

I think it would be very important confirm existence of telepathy if it works with some living person

on the Earth.

 

Telepathy is like, hearing what other people think right? Well, humans evolved form fish, and fish communicate or at least send some kinds of signals through electro-magnetic waves, but I can't say for sure at all in any way since I don't have any evidence for it in humans, but perhaps there are mutations with the residual DNA from fish that are in humans causing humans to be sensitive to electro-magnetic waves, and humans also generate a bio-magnetic field as well as emit brain waves.

Edited by questionposter
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Telepathy is like, hearing what other people think right? Well, humans evolved form fish, and fish communicate or at least send some kinds of signals through electro-magnetic waves, but I can't say for sure at all in any way since I don't have any evidence for it in humans, but perhaps there are mutations with the residual DNA from fish that are in humans causing humans to be sensitive to electro-magnetic waves, and humans also generate a bio-magnetic field as well as emit brain waves.

 

That's an interesting suggestion, about residual fish DNA. Nature films show fish swimming around in shoals. Each shoal moves as a co-ordinated entity. With all the hundreds of individual fish within the shoal, rapidly veering and darting, this way and that. All together in perfect unison. With split-second timing. Perhaps it's a kind of bio-magnetic telepathy.

 

And if this ancient "telepathic" talent, is still residing somewhere deep within our human brains, it might explain one phenonomen: "Synchronised Swimming" as an event in the Olympic Games. Maybe the Synchronised Swimming teams are attempting, subconsciously, to fulfill a deep human urge - the urge to obey the programming of the ancient fish DNA.

 

Might that not account for why people seem to find it fascinating to watch?

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Telepathy is like, hearing what other people think right? Well, humans evolved form fish, and fish communicate or at least send some kinds of signals through electro-magnetic waves,

 

Electromagnetic waves......that would be light......that is why they have eyes. Fish do a large amount of the communicating through body language, colour and patterns.

 

Perhaps those who are purported to be capable of mental telepathy are just particularly skilled at reading the body language of others.

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No to all the above. There is no latent telepathy present from our primordial prehistory anymore than there are latent gills just waiting to be used.

 

That's what I was thinking, but then again cancer, which is mainly caused by the mutation of one single type of gene (which controls the rate of the cell cycle), manages to happen in millions of people. It's just one single gene that manages to get altered nearly the same exact way in many many people, so any residual fish DNA should also have a chance of mutating. Even if it isn't, there's probably some way to genetically engineer a way ourselves to be sensitive to electro-magnetism. I think birds are too, so both fish and birds, and over half our DNA is the same as in birds and fish. Even in something like a beetle our DNA is around 60% the same, but the ones that are similar are present in different amounts, so perhaps there are just lesser amounts of the residual fish DNA responsible for being sensitive to electro-magnetism.

Edited by questionposter
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I think it would be very important confirm existence of telepathy if it works with some living person

on the Earth.

 

That raises the question - could a telepathic person bear to go on living?

 

The question was addressed in John Christopher's haunting SF short story "The New Wine". Biologists discover that humans have a natural telepathic ability. But this ability normally gets "suppressed" at birth. The biologists find a way to prevent this suppression, so that all children grow up as telepaths.

 

The result? The human race quickly becomes extinct. A last survivor, explains the reason:

 

"The telepathy killed them... because people have got bad minds. I guess you all know what you're like, if you look at yourself deep down and honest. Liars, cheats, murderers. We're all like that - always have been. What comes out of our mouths, has been through a filter. But there were no filters for the telepaths. It hit them and kept on hitting all the time. The better anyone was, the quicker it killed him."

 

So probably, it's a good thing we're not telepathic.

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That's what I was thinking, but then again cancer, which is mainly caused by the mutation of one single type of gene (which controls the rate of the cell cycle), manages to happen in millions of people. It's just one single gene that manages to get altered nearly the same exact way in many many people, so any residual fish DNA should also have a chance of mutating. Even if it isn't, there's probably some way to genetically engineer a way ourselves to be sensitive to electro-magnetism. I think birds are too, so both fish and birds, and over half our DNA is the same as in birds and fish. Even in something like a beetle our DNA is around 60% the same, but the ones that are similar are present in different amounts, so perhaps there are just lesser amounts of the residual fish DNA responsible for being sensitive to electro-magnetism.

 

 

And what gene is that exactly? Everything I have heard about cancer is that it can have a wide variety of causes. And the development of a completely different sense is far and away more complex than unregulated cell growth.

 

We are sensitive to electro-magnetism, in fact our nervous system communicates electrically, but the brain doesn't give off strong enough waves to be efficient for telepathy. You also would need proof that the fish had telepathy, they don't but let's say they do, before our common ancestor split.

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Not electromagnetic waves, but plain old waves, or vibrations, from objects in the water hittng the strip of nerves on the side of their bodies.

 

 

All the science tells us that neurones do not respond to directly to vibrations or air molecules (sound) or to electromagentic radiation (light).

 

Receptor cells in the ears and retinas do however and induce a response in the neurone that link them to the brain.

 

If you are going to discuss telepathy rationally then you need to limit yourself to hard science and not range off into superstition and mysticism etc.

 

Telepathy may indeed be real, but does not work in the way that science illiterate people usually think it does.

 

What is wrong with the idea that telepathy might simply be an unusually strong ability to read the body language of others as do most other animals that are not capable of language?

 

It does not make it any less real.

 

That's what I was thinking, but then again cancer, which is mainly caused by the mutation of one single type of gene (which controls the rate of the cell cycle), manages to happen in millions of people. It's just one single gene that manages to get altered nearly the same exact way in many many people, so any residual fish DNA should also have a chance of mutating. Even if it isn't, there's probably some way to genetically engineer a way ourselves to be sensitive to electro-magnetism. I think birds are too, so both fish and birds, and over half our DNA is the same as in birds and fish. Even in something like a beetle our DNA is around 60% the same, but the ones that are similar are present in different amounts, so perhaps there are just lesser amounts of the residual fish DNA responsible for being sensitive to electro-magnetism.

 

No cancer is caused by a single mutation in a single gene. The genetic changes that lead to cancer are many and varied and reliant on complex interactions between multiple deffective and/or mutated genes. In some case it is caused by a latent virus, e.g. cervical cancer, in some it is caused by changes to regions of our DNA outside our explicit genes.

 

Having some modified fish genes is no revelation. In fact all forms of life, from bacteria to people, share a proportion of basic genes that vary little across millions of species. E.G. The genes involved with cell division.

 

In fact in embryology it has been found that the humans trace their evolutionary history through the development of our embryos. I.E. A human embryo looks very similar to an average fish embryo at one point in its development.

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All the science tells us that neurones do not respond to directly to vibrations or air molecules (sound) or to electromagentic radiation (light).

 

Receptor cells in the ears and retinas do however and induce a response in the neurone that link them to the brain.

If you are going to discuss telepathy rationally then you need to limit yourself to hard science and not range off into superstition and mysticism etc.

 

Telepathy may indeed be real, but does not work in the way that science illiterate people usually think it does.

 

What is wrong with the idea that telepathy might simply be an unusually strong ability to read the body language of others as do most other animals that are not capable of language?

 

It does not make it any less real.

(My bold)

 

What exactly do you believe these receptor cells to be? Sensory neurons use external stimuli as activation and then communicate with other neurons. They are no different other than they have very specific shapes to receive these stimuli. Photo receptors, for example, respond specifically to electromagnetic radiation in a certain range of wavelengths.

 

 

Telepathy, as is usually understood, is not understanding through body language. In a scientific discussion you cannot redefine words as you please. I could say I can prove Gods existence, but only if you accept that God is a dog. That doesn't prove God exists.

 

 

 

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We are sensitive to electro-magnetism, in fact our nervous system communicates electrically, but the brain doesn't give off strong enough waves to be efficient for telepathy. You also would need proof that the fish had telepathy, they don't but let's say they do, before our common ancestor split.

 

Maybe it wasn't telepathy exactly, http://en.wikipedia....lectroreception

 

All people would seem to need a mutation of that to project those fields strongly enough like how you were saying, but I was thinking if there was a mutation with a that gave someone a heightened enough sensitivity, then they would be able to sense even weak magnetic or electrical fields.

 

No cancer is caused by a single mutation in a single gene. The genetic changes that lead to cancer are many and varied and reliant on complex interactions between multiple deffective and/or mutated genes. In some case it is caused by a latent virus, e.g. cervical cancer, in some it is caused by changes to regions of our DNA outside our explicit genes.

 

 

 

After doing a little research, it was actually 3-4 genes (4 may be the second mutation of the same gene), but they all control the cell cycle, so as I was saying, the gene(s) that control the cell cycle get altered, and that's why all cancer happens, since each cell has genes that control when it divides, when it dies, etc. Those genes are mismatch genes, supressor genes, and proto-oncogenes, or at least that's what I've found so far. The causes for the alteration of those genes can be different and the cell they occur in can vary. Some cells like muscle cells are missing one or two cell cycle genes which is why muscle cancer almost never happens.

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Maybe it wasn't telepathy exactly, http://en.wikipedia....lectroreception

 

All people would seem to need a mutation of that to project those fields strongly enough like how you were saying, but I was thinking if there was a mutation with a that gave someone a heightened enough sensitivity, then they would be able to sense even weak magnetic or electrical fields.

 

Now show that they evolved this ability before our common ancestors, identify the gene that causes this, show we still have it, etc. Then you need to show we produce enough of an electric field to be able to be detected and interpreted. Last, but certainly not least, you need to show that the brain waves would not be interfered with by all other neuronal interaction or any other electrical activity. So being able to detect electricity is really almost nothing like telepathy other than neurons use electric pulses.

 

 

 

After doing a little research, it was actually 3-4 genes (4 may be the second mutation of the same gene), but they all control the cell cycle, so as I was saying, the gene(s) that control the cell cycle get altered, and that's why all cancer happens, since each cell has genes that control when it divides, when it dies, etc. Those genes are mismatch genes, supressor genes, and proto-oncogenes, or at least that's what I've found so far. The causes for the alteration of those genes can be different and the cell they occur in can vary. Some cells like muscle cells are missing one or two cell cycle genes which is why muscle cancer almost never happens.

 

Could you link to the places you found this.

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Now show that they evolved this ability before our common ancestors, identify the gene that causes this, show we still have it, etc. Then you need to show we produce enough of an electric field to be able to be detected and interpreted. Last, but certainly not least, you need to show that the brain waves would not be interfered with by all other neuronal interaction or any other electrical activity. So being able to detect electricity is really almost nothing like telepathy other than neurons use electric pulses.

 

 

 

 

Could you link to the places you found this.

 

 

So... I need to show that fish evolved this ability before we evolved form fish? Also, I don't think just anyone has access to the genome of every animal on Earth. I've already provided you with a link showing fish can sense electrical fields (and since we evolved from fish there should be no debate there) and there's also birds which can sense magnetic fields. I guess your more concerned with a question of distinguishing between those fields if someone developed a heightened sensitivity to it like you said, but that's sort of like asking your eyes to distinguish between different wavelengths of light. It's all light, but clearly there's variations of it. It's not really superstition, it's just what would be the next level. Plenty of animals can sense things using electric and magnetic (or both) fields, but I think there could be some mutations where that get's taken to the next level where something has such a keen sense of it that they can sense what others are thinking at least to a lesser degree, like maybe chemicals from emotions causing changes in a bio-magnetic field or etc so that whoever had that sense would be able to sense the different bio-magnetic fields that different emotions generate.

 

Also

http://cancer.stanfo...genesCause.html

Edited by questionposter
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So... I need to show that fish evolved this ability before we evolved form fish? Also, I don't think just anyone has access to the genome of every animal on Earth. I've already provided you with a link showing fish can sense electrical fields (and since we evolved from fish there should be no debate there) and there's also birds which can sense magnetic fields. I guess your more concerned with a question of distinguishing between those fields if someone developed a heightened sensitivity to it like you said, but that's sort of like asking your eyes to distinguish between different wavelengths of light. It's all light, but clearly there's variations of it. It's not really superstition, it's just what would be the next level. Plenty of animals can sense things using electric and magnetic (or both) fields, but I think there could be some mutations where that get's taken to the next level where something has such a keen sense of it that they can sense what others are thinking at least to a lesser degree, like maybe chemicals from emotions causing changes in a bio-magnetic field or etc so that whoever had that sense would be able to sense the different bio-magnetic fields that different emotions generate.

 

We didn't evolve from fish, nobody agrees with that, we had a common ancestor. You didn't evolve from your 4th cousin did you? No you came from a common ancestor. Same thing only further back. We do distinguish from different colors of light and we had a reason to evolve such a device, what necessitates our development of telepathy (assuming it is real)? Now to the point of how this telepathy distinguishes between, say, the action potential of a photo-receptor, a motor neuron, or any other neuron that would make communication possible. Short answer, I doubt it could.

 

 

 

It says types of genes, not genes. There's a big difference. There could be thousands of genes that are the same type, but that doesn't make them the same gene.

 

quote from the site

An accumulation of many mutations in different genes occurring in a specific group of cells over time is required to cause malignancy. The different types of genes, that when mutated, can lead to the development of cancer are described below. Remember, it takes mutations in several of these genes for a person to develop cancer.
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We didn't evolve from fish, nobody agrees with that, we had a common ancestor. You didn't evolve from your 4th cousin did you? No you came from a common ancestor. Same thing only further back. We do distinguish from different colors of light and we had a reason to evolve such a device, what necessitates our development of telepathy (assuming it is real)? Now to the point of how this telepathy distinguishes between, say, the action potential of a photo-receptor, a motor neuron, or any other neuron that would make communication possible. Short answer, I doubt it could.

 

At this point I can't prove OR DISPROVE it. Although I guess someone could try and see if they could make robots that can distinguish between all of them, but like I was trying to say, just as with light, the electrical field that a neuron generates will be inherently different than what is generated by other things. We can distinguish between 5,000,000-10,000,000 different wavelengths of optical light, and I don't even know if we have 100,000 different types of cells in our body.

 

 

 

 

It says types of genes, not genes. There's a big difference. There could be thousands of genes that are the same type, but that doesn't make them the same gene.

 

quote from the site

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Well w/e they are all involved in the single process that is the cell cycle, and when stuff goes wrong with the cell cycle that causes things to grow out of control, you get cancer. If there are millions of genes for it though, how does it happen in so many people? I would think that because its so easy to get cancer that there are only few genes which control the cell cycle that can get altered, which means if only one gene that controls the cell cycle get's altered it has a bigger impact, and also since there would be fewer it wouldn't take as much to alter them. This is also probably why eye color and skin tone are so variant among people. I mean there's still many genes controlling eye color, but the actual amount of dominant genes probably isn't that much, which is why if one little gene get's altered it would yields a completely different eye color.

 

If I manage to find any links with specific gene names I'll let you know though.

Edited by questionposter
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At this point I can't prove OR DISPROVE it. Although I guess someone could try and see if they could make robots that can distinguish between all of them, but like I was trying to say, just as with light, the electrical field that a neuron generates will be inherently different than what is generated by other things. We can distinguish between 5,000,000-10,000,000 different wavelengths of optical light, and I don't even know if we have 100,000 different types of cells in our body.

 

And where did you get those numbers from? The visible part of the EM spectrum is around 400 - 750 nm. Depending on what you mean by distinguish, we can only tell the difference between a few hundred hues independent of luminescence (I think that's the right word). And that's only the color receptors of the eyes. The rods in your eyes, located in the edge of your eye, are more or less colorblind. They can only 'see' around 400-500 nm. The rest of your vision is lies put together by preconceived notion in your brain. You can even test this yourself with a friend and some colored paper, but I digress.

 

Again, it would be virtually impossible for telepathy to be able to tell the difference between which neurons are important for communication, and therefore would 'see' the information your fingers are sending to your spine, your eyes are sending to your brain, your brain is sending to your feet, ad infinitum. In all that noise of a single person, billions of neurons with thousands of synapses potentially firing, would be unbelievable. Not to mention some glial cells can communicate the same way neurons do so they would add to the noise. There can be around 30 glial cells for every neuron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well w/e they are all involved in the single process that is the cell cycle, and when stuff goes wrong with the cell cycle that causes things to grow out of control, you get cancer. If there are millions of genes for it though, how does it happen in so many people? I would think that because its so easy to get cancer that there are only few genes which control the cell cycle that can get altered, which means if only one gene that controls the cell cycle get's altered it has a bigger impact, and also since there would be fewer it wouldn't take as much to alter them. This is also probably why eye color and skin tone are so variant among people. I mean there's still many genes controlling eye color, but the actual amount of dominant genes probably isn't that much, which is why if one little gene get's altered it would yields a completely different eye color.

 

If I manage to find any links with specific gene names I'll let you know though.

 

I'm not very familiar with cancer so I personally couldn't give you very good information on cancer specifically, but there are mutations that are more common than others. If you are interested in learning more of that I would try wiki.

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(My bold)

 

What exactly do you believe these receptor cells to be? Sensory neurons use external stimuli as activation and then communicate with other neurons. They are no different other than they have very specific shapes to receive these stimuli. Photo receptors, for example, respond specifically to electromagnetic radiation in a certain range of wavelengths.

 

 

Telepathy, as is usually understood, is not understanding through body language. In a scientific discussion you cannot redefine words as you please. I could say I can prove Gods existence, but only if you accept that God is a dog. That doesn't prove God exists.

 

 

 

 

For starters you have to show that what the telopathic stimuli is transmitted as.

 

There is electromagentic radiation (heat and light). Eyes and skin heat receptors respond to these.

 

There is vibration of air molecules (sound). The ears respond to this.

 

In both cases the brain then decodes the information contained in these stimuli.

 

If telopathy exists, what other stimuli do you propose that is transmitting the information that the brain then decodes?

 

And what are the physical receptors in our bodies that respond to that additional stimuli?

 

 

 

You are trying to tell me that telopathy exists outside the bounds physics and outside the bounds of physiology.

 

You are in effect trying to do the same thing as argue that god exists based on faith.

Edited by Greg Boyles
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For starters you have to show that what the telopathic stimuli is transmitted as.

 

There is electromagentic radiation (heat and light). Eyes and skin heat receptors respond to these.

 

There is vibration of air molecules (sound). The ears respond to this.

 

In both cases the brain then decodes the information contained in these stimuli.

 

If telopathy exists, what other stimuli do you propose that is transmitting the information that the brain then decodes?

 

And what are the physical receptors in our bodies that respond to that additional stimuli?

 

Eyes respond. . . did you even look up photo receptors? It's a neuron that responds to electromagnetic radiation in the 400-750 nm wavelength. You were mistaken and I was pointing that out.

 

 

You are trying to tell me that telopathy exists outside the bounds physics and outside the bounds of physiology.

 

You are in effect trying to do the same thing as argue that god exists based on faith.

 

 

I would like you to point out at what point in this entire thread I have endorsed telepathy.

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And where did you get those numbers from? The visible part of the EM spectrum is around 400 - 750 nm. Depending on what you mean by distinguish, we can only tell the difference between a few hundred hues independent of luminescence (I think that's the right word). And that's only the color receptors of the eyes. The rods in your eyes, located in the edge of your eye, are more or less colorblind. They can only 'see' around 400-500 nm. The rest of your vision is lies put together by preconceived notion in your brain. You can even test this yourself with a friend and some colored paper, but I digress.

 

Again, it would be virtually impossible for telepathy to be able to tell the difference between which neurons are important for communication, and therefore would 'see' the information your fingers are sending to your spine, your eyes are sending to your brain, your brain is sending to your feet, ad infinitum. In all that noise of a single person, billions of neurons with thousands of synapses potentially firing, would be unbelievable. Not to mention some glial cells can communicate the same way neurons do so they would add to the noise. There can be around 30 glial cells for every neuron.

 

How would it be virtually impossible when we can distinguish that many colors of light? We can easily distinguish that many colors of light because there can also be different combinations of wavelengths simultaneously.

Also

220px-1Mcolors.png

This image (when viewed in full size, 1000 pixels wide) contains 1 million pixels, each of a different color. The human eye can distinguish about 10 million different colors.[18]

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Color_vision

 

So you can see at least 1 million colors right in front of you.

There's also other animals which see infra-red light or the primary carrier of heat here on Earth, but those animals also have physical bodies which constantly give off heat themselves (or infra-red light) yet they can see just fine.

Not only that, but what about those fish still? A shark can sense electric fields generated by many other fish yet their bodies generate an electrical field themselves, but they are still able to hunt other fish using the sense of electrical fields.

Edited by questionposter
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How would it be virtually impossible when we can distinguish that many colors of light? We can easily distinguish that many colors of light because there can also be different combinations of wavelengths simultaneously.

Also

220px-1Mcolors.png

This image (when viewed in full size, 1000 pixels wide) contains 1 million pixels, each of a different color. The human eye can distinguish about 10 million different colors.[18]

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Color_vision

 

That is only in when colors are in relation to each other, and when you take into account the shading and reference objects. Their ability to distinguish hues is far less impressive. From the same link

Though the eye can distinguish up to a few hundred hues, when those pure spectral colors are mixed together or diluted with white light, the number of distinguishable chromaticities can be quite high

 

There is quite a difference. When reference objects are seen it is easy to make a single color seen as two different colors. Also you have to wonder how much the wavelengths differ to be considered separate colors. We could both be right depending on what the cut off point for colors is.

 

So you can see at least 1 million colors right in front of you.

There's also other animals which see infra-red light or the primary carrier of heat here on Earth, but those animals also have physical bodies which constantly give off heat themselves (or infra-red light) yet they can see just fine.

 

That is like saying we shouldn't be able to see because we give off light in our visible spectrum. They don't actually see the heat, they see the infrared spectrum given off by the heat.

 

Not only that, but what about those fish still? A shark can sense electric fields generated by many other fish yet their bodies generate an electrical field themselves, but they are still able to hunt other fish using the sense of electrical fields.2

 

 

Sharks cannot tell what the fish is thinking. Telepathy would need the ability to tell the difference between ALL different neuronal interactions, not just 'see' electric fields. It is entirely different from seeing colors. It would be more like only seeing colors that bounce off certain objects even at a single wavelength.

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