Is microbial treatment of obesity and associated ailments feasible?

[Green Xenon]

Hi:

 

I'm thinking of theoretical treatment for obesity and some of it's associated illnesses. This treatment involves the use of strains of bioengineered bacteria.

 

Strain 1 feeds on cholesterol molecules

Strain 2 feeds on molecules of free saturated fatty acids

Strain 3 feeds on molecules of free trans fatty acids

Strain 4 feeds on LDL molecules

Strain 5 feeds on IDL molecules

Strain 6 feeds on VLDL molecules

Strain 7 feeds on acetone*

Strain 8 feeds on glucose

 

There are 24 more strains. Strains 9 to 16 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively and contain cortisol receptors. Strains 9 to 16 increase their activities in response to cortisol. Strains 17 to 24 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively but contain insulin receptors. Strains 17 to 24 increase their activities in response to insulin. Strains 25 to 32 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively but contain glucagon receptors. Strains 25 to 32 increase their activities in response to glucagon.

 

All strains are active only in the bloodstream of the patient. They become dormant when out of the blood – this will prevent the strains from attacking molecules present in tissues such as the brain. Each patient has the strains tailored to his/her own body such that his/her immune system doesn’t see the strains as foreign entities. If any strain leaves his/her body and enters the body of another patient, the other patient’s immune system will attack the strain – this prevents the strains from becoming contagious.

 

Strains 1 to 8 are equally active regardless of blood concentrations of cortisol, insulin, or glucagon. However, a higher blood concentration of cortisol will result in more intense activity in strains 9 to 16, while a higher blood concentration of insulin will result in a more intense activity in strains 17 to 24. Finally, a higher blood concentration of glucagon will result in a more intense activity in strains 25 to 32.

 

All strains are made by bioengineering the smallest naturally-existing obligate-anaerobic** bacterium that has all the following qualities:

 

1. Not gram-negative

2. Free of lipopolysaccharide

3. Non-pathogenic

4. Does not produce or contain any exo- or endo-toxins

5. Is non-allergenic

 

*Why eliminate acetone from the body? This is because acetone is a toxic type of ketone that cannot be used for energy. Acetone is produce as a by-product of fat metabolism. Two other ketones resulting from such metabolism are acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. These two ketones can be used for energy by the central nervous system.

 

**Obligate-anaerobic bacteria are used so that their population in the bloodstream can be regulated without relying on the patient's immune system. Obligate-anaerobes cannot tolerate oxygen and will die in the presence of it. This means that the overwhelming majority of these bacteria would survive and thrive in the pulmonary arteries and non-pulmonary veins of the patient.

 

Here is my question. What would be the drawbacks of such therapy -- besides the expense? Acidosis from anaerobic bacterial respiration is one cause of concern that I can foresee.

 

 

Regards,

 

GX

[Greg Boyles]

Hi:

 

I'm thinking of theoretical treatment for obesity and some of it's associated illnesses. This treatment involves the use of strains of bioengineered bacteria.

 

Strain 1 feeds on cholesterol molecules

Strain 2 feeds on molecules of free saturated fatty acids

Strain 3 feeds on molecules of free trans fatty acids

Strain 4 feeds on LDL molecules

Strain 5 feeds on IDL molecules

Strain 6 feeds on VLDL molecules

Strain 7 feeds on acetone*

Strain 8 feeds on glucose

 

There are 24 more strains. Strains 9 to 16 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively and contain cortisol receptors. Strains 9 to 16 increase their activities in response to cortisol. Strains 17 to 24 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively but contain insulin receptors. Strains 17 to 24 increase their activities in response to insulin. Strains 25 to 32 do what strains 1 to 8 do, respectively but contain glucagon receptors. Strains 25 to 32 increase their activities in response to glucagon.

 

All strains are active only in the bloodstream of the patient. They become dormant when out of the blood – this will prevent the strains from attacking molecules present in tissues such as the brain. Each patient has the strains tailored to his/her own body such that his/her immune system doesn't see the strains as foreign entities. If any strain leaves his/her body and enters the body of another patient, the other patient's immune system will attack the strain – this prevents the strains from becoming contagious.

 

Strains 1 to 8 are equally active regardless of blood concentrations of cortisol, insulin, or glucagon. However, a higher blood concentration of cortisol will result in more intense activity in strains 9 to 16, while a higher blood concentration of insulin will result in a more intense activity in strains 17 to 24. Finally, a higher blood concentration of glucagon will result in a more intense activity in strains 25 to 32.

 

All strains are made by bioengineering the smallest naturally-existing obligate-anaerobic** bacterium that has all the following qualities:

 

1. Not gram-negative

2. Free of lipopolysaccharide

3. Non-pathogenic

4. Does not produce or contain any exo- or endo-toxins

5. Is non-allergenic

 

*Why eliminate acetone from the body? This is because acetone is a toxic type of ketone that cannot be used for energy. Acetone is produce as a by-product of fat metabolism. Two other ketones resulting from such metabolism are acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. These two ketones can be used for energy by the central nervous system.

 

**Obligate-anaerobic bacteria are used so that their population in the bloodstream can be regulated without relying on the patient's immune system. Obligate-anaerobes cannot tolerate oxygen and will die in the presence of it. This means that the overwhelming majority of these bacteria would survive and thrive in the pulmonary arteries and non-pulmonary veins of the patient.

 

Here is my question. What would be the drawbacks of such therapy -- besides the expense? Acidosis from anaerobic bacterial respiration is one cause of concern that I can foresee.

 

 

Regards,

 

GX

 

Why bother?

 

 

How about we just stick to good old fashioned diet and exercise!

[Green Xenon]

Why bother?

 

 

How about we just stick to good old fashioned diet and exercise!

 

Too boring. Best invent something to make life more interesting. So again, I ask, what would be the medical disadvantages of this bacterial therapy?

[CharonY]

Putting a large amount of foreign objects into your bloodstream, especially living organisms is an patently silly idea. Akin to load up your stomach with blunt knives (you know, just not to cut yourself) in order to help digesting large whole-swallowed chunks of food because, you know, chewing is so boring.

[Greg Boyles]

Too boring. Best invent something to make life more interesting. So again, I ask, what would be the medical disadvantages of this bacterial therapy?

 

 

Taking away personal responsibility for one's health is one disadvantage.

[Green Xenon]

Taking away personal responsibility for one's health is one disadvantage.

 

Ok. I was more interested in the science of what could go wrong.

 

Putting a large amount of foreign objects into your bloodstream, especially living organisms is an patently silly idea.

 

Even if the microbes are beneficial?

 

 

All strains are made by bioengineering the smallest naturally-existing obligate-anaerobic** bacterium that has all the following qualities:

 

1. Not gram-negative

2. Free of lipopolysaccharide

3. Non-pathogenic

4. Does not produce or contain any exo- or endo-toxins

5. Is non-allergenic

 

 

6. Uses fermentation – not respiration – for energy

7. Does NOT generate CO2

[Green Xenon]

This thread is usually is unusually silent. I hope I'm not boring or annoying anyone with the subject of this thread. I, however, find this topic interesting.

 

Obesity and the ailments that go with it -- such as hypertension, diabetes, high LDL blood cholesterol, atherosclerosis -- can be treated using these genetically-engineered strains of bacteria.

 

Let's add another strain of bacteria to each of the 3 groups of 8 categories. This 3 strains will feed on glycerol in the patients bloodstream. Glycerol is unnecessary calories.

 

So what's wrong with just diet and exercise? Here's the problem. I'm one of the few who has the will power to control my temptation to eat junk food. There are so many individual who want to bake their cake and eat it [literally and figuratively]. That's who my bacteria are for. As a result, obesity is an epidemic -- especially in America.

 

Patients who are injected with these strains of bacteria will not longer have issues of obesity and issues associated with it. The bacteria will keep the bad lipids -- and the toxic by-products of lipid metabolism -- at a low-enough concentration to ensure the blood is clean; this will treat atherosclerosis and prevent the acidosis resulting from lipolysis. In addition, these bacteria will keep the amounts of glucose low enough to force the body to burn fat -- directly treating obesity. Finally, the decrease in body weight will cause the previously-high blood pressure to drop to normal.

 

In addition to treatment, these bacterial strains can also be used to prevent obesity and it's associated ailments.

 

Currently I have two concerns here:

 

1. The build-up of lactic acid in the bloodstream caused by the bacterial anaerobic respiration.

 

2. Since these bacteria and obligate-anaerobes, they will die when they enter the oxygenated blood present in pulmonary veins and non-pulmonary arteries. This will cause the spleen to be put under stress because it's duty is to remove dead cells from the body.

[JorgeLobo]

This is patently silly.

[Green Xenon]

This is patently silly.

 

How so?

[JorgeLobo]

Every element and in general its childish speculation.

 

Do you really think there would be no health consequence in introducing bacteria into the blood stream? That those bacteria would survive and synthesize enzymes to your offered objectives wthout the host attacking them as well? That all functional metabolic targets are effectively at the control of enzymes in the bloodstream?

 

 

 

but you could try it on yourself and let us know how it worked.

[Green Xenon]

Every element and in general its childish speculation.

 

Do you really think there would be no health consequence in introducing bacteria into the blood stream? That those bacteria would survive and synthesize enzymes to your offered objectives wthout the host attacking them as well? That all functional metabolic targets are effectively at the control of enzymes in the bloodstream?

 

 

 

but you could try it on yourself and let us know how it worked.

 

1. There would be drawbacks but they would preferable over the horrors of obesity and the aforementioned diseases associated with it.

 

2. The patient's immune system needs to be tricked into "thinking" these bacteria are part of his/her body.

 

3. I'd love to be one of the guinea pigs

[pantheory]

Bacteria are probably the best bet, but parasites such as viruses and fungi might also do the trick But why stop with obesity, why not better gut microbes to help predigest food for skinny people and different ones to interfere with the process for fat people -- or plaque eaters to clear arteries, anti-viral living agents of some kind to fight viral infections, bacteria that produce insulin or other natural enzymes, hormones, etc., or microbe cocktails along with drugs for some of the above maladies, to thwart the ravages of genetic and/or age related diseases, etc.

 

One strategy might be to start with ones own cells in a bacteria amalgam which would accordingly provide the "self" marker to avoid the normal immune response. Another might be a generic type of "marker-less" exterior that would not be as quickly identified by an immune system.

 

I think your idea is sound and someday in the not too distant future, living engineered organisms will begin to assist in our health and longevity, no doubt

Edited September 1, 2011 by pantheory

[Green Xenon]

Bacteria are probably the best bet, but parasites such as viruses and fungi might also do the trick But why stop with obesity, why not better gut microbes to help predigest food for skinny people and different ones to interfere with the process for fat people -- or plaque eaters to clear arteries, anti-viral living agents of some kind to fight viral infections, bacteria that produce insulin or other natural enzymes, hormones, etc., or microbe cocktails along with drugs for some of the above maladies, to thwart the ravages of genetic and/or age related diseases, etc.

 

One strategy might be to start with ones own cells in a bacteria amalgam which would accordingly provide the "self" marker to avoid the normal immune response. Another might be a generic type of "marker-less" exterior that would not be as quickly identified by an immune system.

 

I think your idea is sound and someday in the not too distant future, living engineered organisms will begin to assist in our health and longevity, no doubt

 

 

Let's say my idea is put into use. Do you see any drawbacks that I haven't listed or discussed?

[pantheory]

Let's say my idea is put into use. Do you see any drawbacks that I haven't listed or discussed?

The biggest drawback that I see is that just to design a single microbe to do just one of those things you mentioned would take many decades of time to develop, test, and get approved.

 

As to the here and now, from what I have read, the best bet for uncontrollable obesity is a gastric bypass. It has the best record for effectiveness over other surgical methods with the least trauma and side effects, with other health benefits that could also improve longevity

Edited September 1, 2011 by pantheory

[Green Xenon]

The biggest drawback that I see is that just to design a single microbe to do just one of those things you mentioned would take many decades of time to develop, test, and get approved.

 

As to the here and now, from what I have read, the best bet for uncontrollable obesity is a gastric bypass. It has the best record for effectiveness over other surgical methods with the least trauma and side effects, with other health benefits that could also improve longevity

 

My idea is to treat obesity while allowing patients to eat whatever they want and not do any physical exercise -- and STILL lose all the unwanted body fat.

 

Think of it.

 

An obese patient is injected with medical bacteria that eats blood glucose and -- via homolactic fermentation -- converts this glucose to lactic acid w/out generating any CO2. As

 

However, there are several rules to follow:

 

1. A sufficient amount of bacterial cells must be injected into the patient's bloodstream

2. The bacteria must be alive and metabolically-active but must NOT reproduce in the patient's body as this would eventually cause a dangerous increase in blood pressure and volume. Genetic-engineering can alter the bacteria so that they stop reproducing in response to serum-specific proteins. Or, these bacteria can be modified so that they don't reproducing unless exposed to light of a certain wavelength. This light can be used as a signal to tell these bacteria to reproduce. I'll have to brainstorm more on this.

3. The patient's immune system must not react to the presence of these bacteria

4. The bacteria must not enter any part of the patient's body excluding the bloodstream.

5. The bacterial cells must not have a limited life span when not subjected to lethal conditions

6. The rate at which the bacteria convert glucose to lactic acid should start of at a safely-low rate and then gradually increase in a safe manner to the fastest rate that the bacteria can perform this conversion. If this conversion is initially too fast, the the body will go into shock from the extreme acidity. Over time, the body can increase it's efficiency in which it de-acidifies the body -- this is done by the liver.

7. The bacteria must NOT feed on body proteins -- including those in the blood. Instead they should produce their own structural and functional proteins from amino acids in the bloodstream that are present from what the patient eats. Because the bacteria are not reproducing, they won't need the large amounts of protein that would cause the patient to be deficient in protein.

8. The bacteria must not form any colonies or biofilms in the body. There must be no adhesion to any surface of the blood vessels.

9. If this bacteria spread from the patient to another person, the other person's immune system must attack these bacteria. This means each obese patient must have their own therapeutic strain of bacteria for themselves. Prior to making a strain for each patient, the bacterium needs to be genetically-altered in such a way that his/her immune system doesn't attack but another person's immune system will attack at. This measure is necesssary to prevent the contagious spread of this bacteria.

 

 

So, here is what I can visualize:

 

The patient in injected with syringes of liquid consisting only of the therapeutic bacteria and pure-H20. There are a sufficient amount of bacterial cells in the liquid to make the liquid as viscous as healthy human blood. The patient needs to receive sufficient injections of this fluid. Once this happens, the patient's serum has these bacteria flowing with the blood. The bacteria stay in the serum of the bloodstream only and do not leave the bloodstream, nor do they enter any of the blood cells. These bacteria start fermenting the glucose as soon as they are injected into the bloodstream and solely produce lactic acid as a by-product. However, the amount of glucose molecules fermented to lactic acid in initially insignificant. Gradully, however, the rate at which glucose molecules convert to lactic acid increases to the point where the patient's body will no longer have enough glucose for energy. Eventually, these bacteria increase their rate fermentation to the point where the patient couldn't eat enough glucose to provide any support for metabolismn no matter how much sweets or desserts he/she feasts on. As this fermentation increases, the body will start to break down adipose fat for energy via lipolysis. This process will result in the production of ketones. Ketones can provide energy for the central nervous system which could otherwise only use glucose for energy. As the result the patient will ultimately lose all adipose fat -- both visceral and subcutaneous.

 

I would like to invent this as a treatment for obesity. This can assist obese patients who "want to bake their cake and eat it", literally

 

Any suggestions?

Edited September 17, 2011 by Green Xenon

[Phi for All]

Why attack the lipoproteins? They're transporters, so you'd be leaving fats and cholesterol in the blood stream with no escort. And cholesterol is really important for cell structure. It's everywhere in the body. I'm not sure attacking it with bacteria is wise.

[Green Xenon]

Why attack the lipoproteins? They're transporters, so you'd be leaving fats and cholesterol in the blood stream with no escort. And cholesterol is really important for cell structure. It's everywhere in the body. I'm not sure attacking it with bacteria is wise.

 

Only attack bad lipoproteins. The HDL [the good lipoprotein], is left unaffected.

[amanda more]

I just tried to google but I recall people getting infected with parasites, losing weight then curing the infection. Gross, yes. But slicing and dicing with something like 2% fatality is also very wild,

[Phi for All]

Only attack bad lipoproteins. The HDL [the good lipoprotein], is left unaffected.

But LDLs are what carry cholesterol through the bloodstream. We need them very badly. It's only when their packets are unaccepted by the cells that they fall to the artery walls and become plaque. It would be better to figure out how to make cells put out more cholesterol receptors.

 

One thing that tells cells not to flag down LDLs is insulin. Figure out how not to trigger insulin and LDLs will deliver more cholesterol where it's needed and HDLs won't be needed to clean up the artery walls.

[amanda more]

Hi:

 

I'm thinking of theoretical treatment for obesity and some of it's associated illnesses. This treatment involves the use of strains of bioengineered bacteria.

 

 

Here is website of ascaris infection for weightloss http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7195990/Hong-Kong-dieters-warned-over-swallowing-parasitic-worms.html

 

There is some history to this, Just naturally I read 25% have parasite infections in much of the world so it has been a way to have lower weight.

 

Supposedly other parasites can cause weight gain on some sites.

 

This shows an interesting correlation between part of the immune system and obesity.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947244/.

 

I can't tell what happens with weightloss and inflammation. Is it that weightloss makes you kind of sick? Most feeling sick is an immune response to say a cold virus not the virus itself.

 

So an infection that causes an inflammatory response could by itself cause weightloss or weight gain. Never mind the type of cell it targets.

 

There is a shot taken for weightloss that mimics the throwing up women do in the first three months of pregnancy.

 

Farout. Wrong. Probably. But under the knife makes how much sense really?

 

 

[Green Xenon]

But LDLs are what carry cholesterol through the bloodstream. We need them very badly. It's only when their packets are unaccepted by the cells that they fall to the artery walls and become plaque. It would be better to figure out how to make cells put out more cholesterol receptors.

 

One thing that tells cells not to flag down LDLs is insulin. Figure out how not to trigger insulin and LDLs will deliver more cholesterol where it's needed and HDLs won't be needed to clean up the artery walls.

 

Ok, in that case, let's forget about the idea of attacking any type of lipoprotein. Instead, let's concentrate on using therapeutic bacteria to convert glucose to lactic acid. With all the glucose molecules being fermented to lactic acid, the patient's body will be forced to switch to fat and ketones for fuel. This will cause the body to completely breakdown all stores of fat and obesity will end.

 

Here is my question. Is it possible for bacterial cells to remain alive and metabolically active without reproducing? If so, how do I make them that way? Also, how to alter the starter bacterium [which will be engineered to produce strains] so that it does not evoke an immune response from the patient? In addition, this "alteration" would have to be done for each patient.