Is this science?

[StringJunky]

I have examined this situation in detail and am forced to conclude (reluctantly) that you are 100% correct, with not even a glimmering of a chance of error. This has meade me feel quite ill so I am going home.

 

Humour aside, I wish more people more people would so candidly admit (humour optional) when they are wrong. We learn nothing new when we are always right.

[Phi for All]

Humour aside, I wish more people more people would so candidly admit (humour optional) when they are wrong. We learn nothing new when we are always right.

It's just not gonna happen. According to David McRaney at You Are Not So Smart, psychologically speaking, the Backfire Effect is at work. Briefly, he says that when your deepest convictions are challenged by contrary evidence, your beliefs get stronger.

 

It usually happens when a poster doesn't know enough science to fully understand a concept, so they end up convinced that special relativity is flawed, or that they've created perpetual motion. And since science deals with the natural world, supposedly supernatural phenomena gain that air of mystery that only helps solidify the belief in it.

[Liviu]

See, normally I will reply with this answer: "Until you replied to this thread I never thought at this robot training ideea. Then I imagined a robot that would <save people from slipping in the bathtub> just to see today that you had the same ideea." Now this kind of moments make me freak out and called it telepathy, I see iamatfaal called it precognition, or whatever the name would be.

 

Now, because telepathy is not accepted by science, I have to revise my reply with this one: "That is a great ideea, it is exactly what I imagined. I cannot program a robot, or at least that I think for the moment, I only programmed in C++, PHP, Javascript, Visual Basic and Pascal, but, if someone can program it (I call it training) to follow my instructions and copy my behaviour, it will be able to do all those things."

 

I know that people find hard to belive that I don't want to win the lottery but that is not enough for me to want to win. If all the people that pley for lottery will come to me and give me the money by their own will, I will accept them, otherwise to take the money just to prove I can cheat the lottery is not enough . I lived without money till now or with minimum cash for survival, I can live for the rest of my life the same way.

 

@Phy - that is one interesting proposal, if I'll ever afford to come in America, I will definitely accept this proposal. (Note: the robot names is Roomba, not Doomba, that unless you didn't make a sarcastic joke based un the word "dumb").

By the way, Ophiolite, nice joke

Edited October 11, 2011 by Liviu

[Phi for All]

See, normally I will reply with this answer: "Until you replied to this thread I never thought at this robot training ideea. Then I imagined a robot that would <save people from slipping in the bathtub> just to see today that you had the same ideea." Now this kind of moments make me freak out and called it telepathy, I see iamatfaal called it precognition, or whatever the name would be.

 

Now, because telepathy is not accepted by science, I have to revise my reply with this one: "That is a great ideea, it is exactly what I imagined. I cannot program a robot, or at least that I think for the moment, I only programmed in C++, PHP, Javascript, Visual Basic and Pascal, but, if someone can program it (I call it training) to follow my instructions and copy my behaviour, it will be able to do all those things."

Well, I just call it logical progression, from telepathic robot to saving people from household disaster. Nothing supernatural about that.

 

I know that people find hard to belive that I don't want to win the lottery but that is not enough for me to want to win. If all the people that pley for lottery will come to me and give me the money by their own will, I will accept them, otherwise to take the money just to prove I can cheat the lottery is not enough . I lived without money till now or with minimum cash for survival, I can live for the rest of my life the same way.

Yeah, see that's where it becomes suspect. You could do it but instead you set up some impossible scenario we could never fulfill. And how is it cheating? You get a hunch and pick the numbers just like everyone else.

 

You say you could win the lottery but choose not to for ethical reasons. Most people would consider it the epitome of good ethics to win all that money and then use it, not for mansions and fast cars, but to found a charitable organization that helps the world somehow. What's wrong with that?

 

Nobody is going to believe you could really do it unless you do it.

 

@Phy - that is one interesting proposal, if I'll ever afford to come in America, I will definitely accept this proposal. (Note: the robot names is Roomba, not Doomba, that unless you didn't make a sarcastic joke based un the word "dumb").

Not "dumb". I was basing the joke on "doom", an impending tragic fate. The Roomba goes around vacuuming your house while the Doomba goes around saying, "Warning, warning! Do not run down the stairs! Your shoelace is untied! Warning!"

[StringJunky]

It's just not gonna happen. According to David McRaney at You Are Not So Smart, psychologically speaking, the Backfire Effect is at work. Briefly, he says that when your deepest convictions are challenged by contrary evidence, your beliefs get stronger.

 

It usually happens when a poster doesn't know enough science to fully understand a concept, so they end up convinced that special relativity is flawed, or that they've created perpetual motion. And since science deals with the natural world, supposedly supernatural phenomena gain that air of mystery that only helps solidify the belief in it.

 

Interesting article, thanks. Personal belief is clearly a tough cookie to crack. It seems to me in order to avoid that, ironically perhaps, one needs to sustain a 'belief system' that there is no absolute truth or we cannot know it by virtue of our lack of omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

[Phi for All]

It seems to me in order to avoid that, ironically perhaps, one needs to sustain a 'belief system' that there is no absolute truth or we cannot know it by virtue of our lack of omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

I firmly believe this is true.

[Liviu]

@StringJunky - For me, my OMNIX is the ultimate truth: each element of the universe as (one, many, all, none) repeated to infinity. See the attachment.

 

@Phy - I just wrote that in my journal, there are four kind of paths in a society: the path chosen by the majority, the path chosen by a group, the path chosen by only one man and the path that no one choses. The path of the majority leads to eternal loop, that's why every generation of humans repeats the same steps, the path of a group leads to corruption and in other directions. I liked to choose my only unique way(that's why I survived to all this experiences) and the way that no one will chose (not playing to lottery). The most certain future looks like this: either everyone gets his own personal universe (with his personalized sceince, personalized planets, everything as he wishes, just like a god) and only if that person want to be in a group with an other human and share elements from his private universe, this to happen. Otherwise there will be no long term future for humans, since humans as a majority never changed - if you will get back in time 30.000 you will see that the majority had the same behaviour.

 

Lottery is an unnatural system. If you can convince all the people who play to lottery to give me the money, I will have no ethical problem to accept the money. Or, change the system with a natural one: instead of a machine choosing some numbers, let a pet or an insect choose still 6 elements from 49 like, let's say, colors or forms, it doesn't matter. That day when this natural system will exist, you will see me playing and winning.

 

Because I always followed the natural way and I always got away safe and managed to stay alive after so many accidents, not even all the money from lottery constitute a reason to change my path with an unnatural one. It is predictible that if I'll change the path and win, the next day I'll die or become parralized or any other thing that will stop me using those money. So what's the point of heaving money if I can't spend them?

 

[Liviu]

Thank you all for the answers. It was delightful to see all your reactions and opinions.

[Appolinaria]

@StringJunky - For me, my OMNIX is the ultimate truth: each element of the universe as (one, many, all, none) repeated to infinity. See the attachment.

 

@Phy - I just wrote that in my journal, there are four kind of paths in a society: the path chosen by the majority, the path chosen by a group, the path chosen by only one man and the path that no one choses. The path of the majority leads to eternal loop, that's why every generation of humans repeats the same steps, the path of a group leads to corruption and in other directions. I liked to choose my only unique way(that's why I survived to all this experiences) and the way that no one will chose (not playing to lottery). The most certain future looks like this: either everyone gets his own personal universe (with his personalized sceince, personalized planets, everything as he wishes, just like a god) and only if that person want to be in a group with an other human and share elements from his private universe, this to happen. Otherwise there will be no long term future for humans, since humans as a majority never changed - if you will get back in time 30.000 you will see that the majority had the same behaviour.

 

Lottery is an unnatural system. If you can convince all the people who play to lottery to give me the money, I will have no ethical problem to accept the money. Or, change the system with a natural one: instead of a machine choosing some numbers, let a pet or an insect choose still 6 elements from 49 like, let's say, colors or forms, it doesn't matter. That day when this natural system will exist, you will see me playing and winning.

 

Because I always followed the natural way and I always got away safe and managed to stay alive after so many accidents, not even all the money from lottery constitute a reason to change my path with an unnatural one. It is predictible that if I'll change the path and win, the next day I'll die or become parralized or any other thing that will stop me using those money. So what's the point of heaving money if I can't spend them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty interesting to me personally. In christian esoteric books I have read, it states that there are numerous kingdoms. Mineral, plant, animal, human. The previous one is a level below in evolution. But as we are humans, we were animals before that, with humans who are now angels influencing us. There is an ongoing spiral, forever. It says the animal kingdom is one entity manifesting into all animals, which is why they all look similar (dog to dog) and why they don't really have independent, creative thought. Humans are their own entity manifesting into one body, and we have our own creative identity, which is why for example, two identical twins can appear to look different & act differently- this shows they're two different entities. Everything follows a specific pattern, like a spiral, each ring on the spiral is a little different than the previous one. Each time a new group graduates to the next level, so does the one before it... through mineral, plant, animal, human, etc... and with every revolution, the group is more advanced. The angels that were humans when we were animals guide us, but when we evolve to angels we will be more advanced than them in that stage.

 

I've also read in these same books that when we purify our thoughts completely, our creative function will be perfected, and essentially we will be able to create our own universe... something along the lines with what you were saying. It also means that our current universe is just the thought & creative result of one superior entity.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Appolinaria

[Liviu]

@Appolinaria - yes, something like that. The thing is that I learned from my own experiences, experiments and mistakes how to "switch" to different levels of this eternal spiral and now I'm looking for someone who will want to use this "science" of mine to switch through levels and bring a change in this world, a good change. I just started a couple of weeks ago this searching and I already see people stumblin in only to words ("telepathy" and "god") and not reading and understanding the entire ideea.

 

I had to wait so many years to start this searching, who knows how many years will take me to find the people willing to try this "time travel", because at the next level there are three thing that will be interesting to have them in our current life: free travel anywhere in the world, free food and free resting places during the night. But is hard to find these people, because I do not make things/changes that will make someone notice my existency. Even you, that now read these words, you will forget my words and me very fast, that is my key that allows me to "travel" in people minds, unseen.

[random]

I would like to first point out I am not being an arrogant ass secondly Liviu I had many of the same experiences you did they are very real and because of the realism I began to think I had super sensory powers and communicated telepathically with almost everyone.

 

NOW THIRDLY I want you to seriously consider a few things.

IF you are telepathic why does no one else believe you? you should be able to talk directly with them in their minds and everyone would believe you right?

Next why can you not summarize your thoughts? This is a simple process for the majority oof people however there are some who hold to a belief so passionately they have to explain everything in great detail and it still does not come out right,

And thirdly do you have racing thoughts that are crystal clear to you but seem very difficult to explain?

 

What I'm getting at is I think your brain is in overdrive and your having delusions of grandiosity

which I did........ my story is very similar to yours I was able to very clearly explain my thoughts and beliefs and show an above average intelligence even in severe psychosis I felt NO.......... I BELIEVED I could do all these things no one else could and other people knew but we just never discussed it.

 

Don't be offended but how you worded your phrases and beliefs of these super human capabilities ..........just like me friend. And chances are this post was pointless and you won't go see a doctor because you believe you really posess these abilities. Do me one small favor though, Eat some red meat, avoid stimulants, like coffee and get some sleep , slow your brain down a bit.

[Liviu]

@random - let me summarize to you what is it about, my journal, because it is not about telepathy and delusional thoughts (read it and you will see). When I was a 4 years old kid a big metallic bench felt over me and my neck. While i was suffocating, for about 2-3 minutes, my entire life (until 29 september 2011) passed before my eyes, just like a movie forwarded really really fast. After I was rescued I continued my childhood normally, but in time, I started gather huge ammount of information about people recording absolutely every detail, studying them for 25 years. Beside that, I started mixing elements in my head and creating entire new people, entire new planets, universes, atom by atom, element by element.

 

So, when I actually got to meet in reality things or people or entire chain of events that I imagined many, many years ago, I had to give a name to these coincidences, and I named it "telepathy". But, as you can see, it is not telepathy, it's just a coincidence.

 

You are right, my brain it is overdrived, from building this enormous number of scenarios about the world (some of them seems that are becoming reality), that is why I shutted down my brain and I'm so equilibrated that I can even work with tiny tiny pieces like those from asambling watches or working with equipments that requires great concentration.

 

I don't have delusional thoughts from the simple fact that I don't have thoughts at all, but during that accident from childhood my brain got this ability to play with information and store it in ways that I'm sure not many people can, because you own brain will reject that. And the things, the accidents and events that I've been through + this ability of mixing information in a way that other people cannot made me think that this can be consider science and can be usefull to someone, someday.

 

But from all the replies I got from all over the net and from people I found that it is not science. Now I just have to find if all these information I have can be usefull to someone (I will not give anyone these information because it will take me an eternity, but I can teah other people or robots how to find information that looks impossible to find, and someday, if those people will look for something, like the cure for cancer, they will find it).