Is if possible topical sprays penetrate the skin to relieve muscual pain?

[charles brough]

I just picked up a pamphlet promoting a spray that claims to bring muscle-pain relief. I believe DSMO may penetrate the skin and possibly even acetone, but even that is questionable to me.

 

Any good info?

[Realitycheck]

Arnica Montana, Capsaicin, Menthol ... there are a number of valid products which help, up to an extent, but these three are among the best OTC I've used. Depends on the severity of the trauma.

[charles brough]

Arnica Montana, Capsaicin, Menthol ... there are a number of valid products which help, up to an extent, but these three are among the best OTC I've used. Depends on the severity of the trauma.

 

What I was reallty trying to find out is whether or not anything really penetrates the skin and reaches painful joints or muscles. It seems to me skin is a barrier that ointments and sprays cannot penetrate.

[John Cuthber]

"What I was reallty trying to find out is whether or not anything really penetrates the skin and reaches painful joints or muscles."

yes.

[charles brough]

"What I was reallty trying to find out is whether or not anything really penetrates the skin and reaches painful joints or muscles."yes.

 

I don't disagree with you; it is just that I earlier got an answer from a licensed dermatilogist that chemicals did not breach the skin barrier. I was not satisfied with the answer so I asked here. However, a chemist is not necessarily as astute in physology as a physican. There is that difference between organic and inorganic chemistry for one thing. So, I only ask if you can provide more than just a "yes" answer.

[Psycho]

I don't disagree with you; it is just that I earlier got an answer from a licensed dermatilogist that chemicals did not breach the skin barrier. I was not satisfied with the answer so I asked here. However, a chemist is not necessarily as astute in physology as a physican. There is that difference between organic and inorganic chemistry for one thing. So, I only ask if you can provide more than just a "yes" answer.

I'm a Molecular Cell Biologist, I also say Yes. Most physicians know jack all until they have looked it up in a book.

 

Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. First, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning.

 

Get a new dermatologist.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Psycho

[John Cuthber]

The actual layer of skin that acts as a "barrier" to chemicals is about as thin as the plastic film used to wrap food with.

There are plenty of cases of things that diffuse through it.

Here's some work on toxicity of relatively large chemicals getting through it

http://occmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/57/6/391.full

 

The process is reliable enough to be used quite widely in medicine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transdermal_patch

If your dermatologist isn't aware of this sort of thing then he shouldn't be working in health care

[charles brough]

The actual layer of skin that acts as a "barrier" to chemicals is about as thin as the plastic film used to wrap food with.

There are plenty of cases of things that diffuse through it.

Here's some work on toxicity of relatively large chemicals getting through it

http://occmed.oxford...t/57/6/391.full

 

The process is reliable enough to be used quite widely in medicine

http://en.wikipedia....ansdermal_patch

If your dermatologist isn't aware of this sort of thing then he shouldn't be working in health care

 

Thanks for this info. The dermatologist I contacted was through one of the internet services that provide "expert" medical help to answer your questions. I actually paid $35 to join the service! I used it only once.

[John Cuthber]

Ask for your money back. If they don't give you it, post their name here so we can all have a good laugh at them.

(It may also inform other people's decision about giving them money.)

[matty]

I'd have said get a new dermatologist too, wow.--Though a dermatogist is literally for skin related afflictions, not muscle or things that could be underlying, in which case a regular physician is more in order.

 

ICY HOT is a miracle worker in balm form, not the lotions for persistent pain. The balm is a thick rub, goes on waxy so it stays on for long periods but in too sensitive areas it's a no-no, like the neck, for instance. Unless you apply a very light layer it'll burn.

 

There are self adhesive, very affordable patches as well of this nature you can find in the same section as the rubs in your local dept store or pharmacy.

 

An anti-inflammatory supplement for a day or two wouldn't hurt either.

 

(Ibuprofin or naproxen)

Edited October 17, 2011 by matty

[ewmon]

I just picked up a pamphlet promoting a spray that claims to bring muscle-pain relief.

What I was reallty trying to find out is whether or not anything really penetrates the skin and reaches painful joints or muscles. It seems to me skin is a barrier that ointments and sprays cannot penetrate.

I'll give you three reasons why some chemicals can breach the skin barrier: poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac.

 

On the serious side, if the skin was impervious to all chemicals, then the FDA would not allow Johnson & Johnson to promote Bengay® as a topically-applied pain reliever. I don't believe that it seeps through the skin, knowing where to go, as though it knows to target certain muscles or joints.

 

Systemic absorption and distribution does occur with Bengay®, so for example, you could rub it on your feet and have it cure your headache. My best guess is that it ends up in inter-cellular regions, and the lymph system absorbs it and transfers it to the bloodstream. The main pain reliever in Bengay® is methyl salicylate, which is one of many chemicals that aspirin metabolizes into when ingested. Using Bengay® bypasses the digestive system, and sounds like something to use if your digestive system can't handle it. Just don't over do the stuff because it can kill you.

 

I believe DSMO may penetrate the skin and possibly even acetone, but even that is questionable to me.

DSMO easily penetrates the skin. It is used on animals in veterinary medicine, and some serious consideration is being given for use on humans.

[matty]

Did you just put the little R by the brand Bengay?*lol* Too funny

[charles brough]

Did you just put the little R by the brand Bengay?*lol* Too funny

 

Yeah, the registered trademark . . . Its not something on my keyboard. About asprin, I believe I've read that it affects the digestive system no matter how it is introducted into the body.

 

I do use DSMO once in a while. It was better known for human use some years back. I bought mine at a sporting goods store.

[JorgeLobo]

These treatments do not work by penetrating the skin - they provide a loca;ized syuperficial senation that distracts from the deeper pain.

[John Cuthber]

These treatments do not work by penetrating the skin - they provide a loca;ized syuperficial senation that distracts from the deeper pain.

In the very real sense that topical glyceryl trinitrate patches or ointment affect the heart because the heart is just under the skin.

 

Of course they penetrate the skin. Even if what you say were right, they could only do it by penetrating the skin to reach the nerves.

[StringJunky]

Charles

 

Do you experience a garlicky taste in your mouth sometime after using it? I read this can be a symptom of DSMO use. If so there's your answer.

 

Try a strong nicotine patch on your arm...that will give you an answer as well...I guarantee it, it nearly made me sick as I got ones too strong for me.

 

Also, If it didn't work millions of people wouldn't snort illicit substances up their nose would they?

Edited October 22, 2011 by StringJunky

[Greg Boyles]

I don't disagree with you; it is just that I earlier got an answer from a licensed dermatilogist that chemicals did not breach the skin barrier. I was not satisfied with the answer so I asked here. However, a chemist is not necessarily as astute in physology as a physican. There is that difference between organic and inorganic chemistry for one thing. So, I only ask if you can provide more than just a "yes" answer.

 

 

Some chemicals can penetrate the skin barrier - depends on the size of the molecules and the chemical groupings the molecules contain etc.

Consider nicotine patches for smokers - clearly nictotine can pentrate the skin barrier. Or anaesthetic oinments that clearly pentrate your skin enough to cause some numbing.

 

But as for pain killers penetrating the skin and entering joints etc directly......I seriously doubt it. If they did work it would be due to the fact that the active ingredients penetrate the skin, enter the blood stream and are then distributed indirectly to the joints etc. But in that case it would probably be more efficient to pop pill than rub ointment over your joints and muscles.

[John Cuthber]

It's my understanding that the locally applied creams can provide the same pain relief with a lower dose than a pill because the material is applied locally and is not diluted so much as it would be if you took a pill.

 

The other point is that you accept that some chemicals relieve pain locally- like the local anaesthetic creams, but not other- like diclofenac gel.

How do they know which group they are in so they can act correctly?

 

Unless you can explain how they know what to do, it's not sensible to assume that they act differently.

[charles brough]

Charles

 

Do you experience a garlicky taste in your mouth sometime after using it? I read this can be a symptom of DSMO use. If so there's your answer.

 

Try a strong nicotine patch on your arm...that will give you an answer as well...I guarantee it, it nearly made me sick as I got ones too strong for me.

 

Also, If it didn't work millions of people wouldn't snort illicit substances up their nose would they?

Well, up the nose is different. There you are talking about mucous membrane there and that is much more permeable. I never took DSMO by mouth. I have a roll-on which I use only occassionally. It feels only like sticky water on the skin but does relieve joint arthritis under it.

[StringJunky]

Well, up the nose is different. There you are talking about mucous membrane there and that is much more permeable. I never took DSMO by mouth. I have a roll-on which I use only occassionally. It feels only like sticky water on the skin but does relieve joint arthritis under it.

 

What I meant was, some users who apply DMSO topically experience a taste of garlic in their mouth, implying the substance is absorbed into their body and the taste receptors are triggered by it causing that taste sensation.

Edited October 23, 2011 by StringJunky

[charles brough]

What I meant was, users who apply DSMO topically experience a taste of garlic in their mouth, implying the substance is absorbed into body and the taste receptors are triggered by it causing that taste sensation.

 

No, I never noticed, but then I only use it on my wrist so that is not a large area. But my joint relief and your report of an aftertaste rather well confirms that it does penetrate. It sure is popular as a linamint for horses and is commonly used professionally for them. It is no advertise-hyped product. . .

[StringJunky]

No, I never noticed, but then I only use it on my wrist so that is not a large area. But my joint relief and your report of an aftertaste rather well confirms that it does penetrate. It sure is popular as a linamint for horses and is commonly used professionally for them. It is no advertise-hyped product. . .

 

From Wiki:

 

Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) is an organosulfur compound with the formula (CH3)2SO. This colorless liquid is an important polar aprotic solvent that dissolves both polar and nonpolar compounds and is miscible in a wide range of organic solvents as well as water. It penetrates the skin very readily, giving it the unusual property for many individuals of being secreted onto the surface of the tongue after contact with the skin and causing a garlic-like taste in the mouth.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide

 

I don't know about its efficacy on its own for local pain relief but it definitely penetrates skin very well and is used as a carrier for other products when they need to be applied topically.

[venkyreddy]

what happens here is when we apply balm / spray they enter skin peripheral nerves.

they act as irritants dominate their stimulus on pain stimulus of joints r muscles what ever d part carried nerves n replace the pain stimuli with their irritant stimulus

so we stop perceiving pain but a vague irritant sense comes in

same applies when we rub over painful areas.........thats what i think if wrong give corrections

 

 

 

 

 

I just picked up a pamphlet promoting a spray that claims to bring muscle-pain relief. I believe DSMO may penetrate the skin and possibly even acetone, but even that is questionable to me.

 

Any good info?