Broken Newtons law

[Gareth]

HI All

 

I have been doing some reading, as far as I understand - science may be in for a shock!!

 

If a machine were running at 96% efficiency and were able to produce 4 times its power output over its input power, would that not break Newtons Law?

 

please email me on your further interest

 

email deleted

[swansont]

If it's 96% efficient, it is producing 96% of the input energy, by the definition of efficiency. Over-unity violates the laws of thermodynamics, though Newton's laws would probably have to be violated somewhere, too.

[Phi for All]

HI All

 

I have been doing some reading, as far as I understand - science may be in for a shock!!

 

If a machine were running at 96% efficiency and were able to produce 4 times its power output over its input power, would that not break Newtons Law?

 

please email me on your further interest

 

email deleted

!

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[Gareth]

Swansont Hi

 

Thank you for the reply, Ah ok more open in lingo

 

My apologies on requesting information to be directed to my email, I feel as if I may be going crazy.

 

OK just a brief update on who I am and what I know, I know very little actually about most forms of science yet I do find it ever so intriguing suddenly.

 

My understanding about the laws of force and the effects of gravitational forces on moving objects is what grabbed my attention, thus started looking at engines and other machines.

what force is being required to produce another force in a mechanical fashion, an electric motor requires x amount of power to produce X amount of converted energy.

 

1 watt in .98 watts out as some of the energy is lost due to heat and so on, that is a golden rule right?

 

Now what I am asking really is as follows

 

If I put 1 watt of power in and convert it to a mechanical force but get more out, than what I put in and is powerful enough to only use 2% of its output power to keep it running should be impossible?

 

engines are not very efficient and all ways run at a loss, like a petrol engine has so much loss - the torque that is lost on the wheels are huge.

 

For the same amount of fuel and combustion power = 4 times greater force on the wheels, thus a smaller amount of energy is needed to create a greater mechanical output.

I still have the same amount of wasted power on input, only the output power is much greater thus.

 

a 2 liter motor was producing 200 kw output / now 200 400 800 1600 and far far greater at the same fuel consumption, the initial fuel is still wasted but the return power is far greater even under a load.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Gareth

[swansont]

You can "step up" a force with a machine, but the power is limited to being less than what you put in. Increasing the output force by a factor of 4 will come at the cost of the displacement being reduced by a factor of 4. You can't equate energy and force.

[Mystery111]

You can "step up" a force with a machine, but the power is limited to being less than what you put in. Increasing the output force by a factor of 4 will come at the cost of the displacement being reduced by a factor of 4. You can't equate energy and force.

 

This is true. Force and energy cannot be directly equated, but there does exist relationships, like Fvt = E.

[swansont]

This is true. Force and energy cannot be directly equated, but there does exist relationships, like Fvt = E.

 

And vt = d, which will decrease if the force increases. Like I said.

[TonyMcC]

 

 

If a machine were running at 96% efficiency and were able to produce 4 times its power output over its input power,

 

email deleted

 

If the machine has an efficiency of 96% then its output power will be 96% of its input power.

If the machine produces 4 times its input power then it has an efficiency of 400%.

The two statements cannot describe the same machine.

Edited October 14, 2011 by TonyMcC

[Mystery111]

And vt = d, which will decrease if the force increases. Like I said.

 

 

Yes.

[Gareth]

Hi everyone

 

Thank you so much for your time and better understanding and knowledge.

 

A machine of perpetual motion, the amount of power it generates is not equal to its input it increases and makes its own power to which it provides itself. It only requires a small amount of power to start the motion.

 

It can generate megawatts of power, limited to only its size which is approximately no bigger that of a computer desktop case producing 10 kilo watts.

Heat is 35 degrees constant even under a load, the machine runs virtually silent and has a minimal cost.

 

Only 3 moving parts, none of which should falter for years.

 

What would the impact if it is a possibility were possible?

 

A million Dollars could produce 1600 units each producing 10 kilowatts, no coal / fuel nothing required and the power just keeps on rolling out for years to come.

Not to mention should it be build to the scale of actual power stations how much power it could produce?

 

Oil would have no value, I presume it would be an industrial evolution - Science would have to re think everything about power or dare I say newtons law!

 

That in fact a machine can power it's self and provide vast constant electricity to other machines.

[swansont]

What would the impact if it is a possibility were possible?

 

It's impossible to say. Once you start with a premise of something that violates physical law the rules go out the window and you can reach just about any conclusion that you want.

[TonyMcC]

 

A machine of perpetual motion, the amount of power it generates is not equal to its input it increases and makes its own power to which it provides itself. It only requires a small amount of power to start the motion.

 

That in fact a machine can power it's self and provide vast constant electricity to other machines.

 

This is a dream that many people have had over many years. However, it is firmly believed to be impossible.

[Arpan Jolly]