Decision Making

[Psycho]

The neurological basis for decision making has always interested me, for the fundamental reason that how can you actively make any decision if it is all up to the chemistry in your brain, surely at some level it the conclusion you end up with is just fate based on the "chemical balance" of your brain at the time of the decision.

 

This has been shown to be true in many cases; mood and environment effect peoples decisions, soft chairs have been shown to increase peoples leniency in negotiations, thoughts of disgust and therefore dislike have been superimposed by the brain over whole scenarios even if the subject knew of the artificial cause and it was nothing in the scenario.

 

Other ideas that have been shown to effect the decision making processes are in everyday life are prejudices such as if someone is black or white, male or female, tall or short, these have been shown in studies that people stick to their own groups, interviewers who grew up and associate mainly with white people will preferentially pick a white person over a black person who are equally qualified in an interview situation even if they don't realise they are doing it. This is even the case with the names of the people with applications with stereotypically sounding black names (Tyrone, Fianzo) getting less responses from companies then the exact same CV with a stereotypically white name (James, Ben).

 

This doesn't make them racist it is just how evolution has set are brains up to go with what we know. Most people don't even realise they do it and when psychological studies have shown they do they are offended by the assertion and deny it. Myself, I have done one of these Implicit Association Tests and you can pretty much work out what it is going to say before you do it, where I grew up is mainly white, my school was mainly white (95%), my university was mainly white, I am going to subconsciously pick a white person over a black one and that's what the result said, unsurprising. However, that will effect my decision making in my life as anyone you meet and don't know you attribute qualities to them of what you do know about people who look like them, whether these qualities are right or wrong (about the person or the group in general) and this applies to any variable you can think of not just race.

 

First impression of people have been shown to be made very quickly, before you could even consciously say what your impression was and are nearly entirely based on a bias based on your experiences and these aren't just experiences you have had in the first person; these can also be based off things you have watched on TV or read in the newspaper (whether or not they are true or ever happened).

 

Some decisions of course are made by "you" and not "your brain", these are the ones that are based on stimuli responses such as whether or not you are hungry, thirsty or tired. But even these can be manipulated, by mood or physical activity etc., for instance if your blood is flowing to your muscles due to exertion you won't feel hungry as your gastric blow flow is restricted so even these are manipulated by other factors.

 

Then of course there are the decisions you have no control over what so ever such as iris dilation and sweating, they just happen when they are needed and lets all be thankful for it.

 

I suppose my real question is how much of our decisions is based in our brain, on our physiological state (hunger, tiredness), on our environmental surroundings (music, the seat you are on) and on our prejudices (what we think we know)?

 

Studies have also shown that while using brain scanners researches viewing real time data of subjects can predict whether a subject will choose left or right on a computer screen 5 seconds before they do it, this is even before the subject consciously knows which one they are going to pick, yet the brain has already chosen. But is the chemistry known to a molecular level, or even a physiological level yet?

[granadina]

Why is it so hard to accept that we are just a bundle of chemicals ?

 

Unfortunately , you are supposed to be answerable for your actions , willy nilly .

So why not ' Fake it ' !

And know that you are faking it .

 

Do you have a choice in the matter ?

[Dekan]

The neurological basis for decision making has always interested me, for the fundamental reason that how can you actively make any decision if it is all up to the chemistry in your brain, surely at some level it the conclusion you end up with is just fate based on the "chemical balance" of your brain at the time of the decision.

 

Some decisions of course are made by "you" and not "your brain", these are the ones that are based on stimuli responses such as whether or not you are hungry, thirsty or tired. But even these can be manipulated, by mood or physical activity etc., for instance if your blood is flowing to your muscles due to exertion you won't feel hungry as your gastric blow flow is restricted so even these are manipulated by other factors.

 

Then of course there are the decisions you have no control over what so ever such as iris dilation and sweating, they just happen when they are needed and lets all be thankful for it.

 

I suppose my real question is how much of our decisions is based in our brain, on our physiological state (hunger, tiredness), on our environmental surroundings (music, the seat you are on) and on our prejudices (what we think we know)?

 

Psycho, I've quoted above an abbreviated version of your original excellent post - I hope that in doing so, I haven't misunderstood, and unintentionally distorted, what you meant to put across.

 

The reason for using this short version, is to bring out a point that strikes me. Which is, your employment of expressions like "our brain", "your brain". These expressions seem to imply a certain concept - that the brain is "owned" by a seperate entity. An entity which uses the brain, but is something different and apart from it.

 

Such a concept is of course entirely familiar to religious people - they call it the "soul". The soul makes its own decisions. In order to carry out these decisions, it makes use of the physical human brain - in somewhat the same way, that a computer-programmer makes use of a physical silicon chip. But the programmer is not the chip, any more than the soul is the brain.

 

Sorry if I'm not being very clear! But I'm intrigued by what is at the back of your argument - are you suggesting that there is something outside the brain, which really makes the decisions?

[granadina]

The reason for using this short version, is to bring out a point that strikes me. Which is, your employment of expressions like "our brain", "your brain". These expressions seem to imply a certain concept - that the brain is "owned" by a seperate entity. An entity which uses the brain, but is something different and apart from it.

 

The questionable duality .

 

Nobody is born with a concept of ' subjective ' and ' objective ' .

It's a result of (ineluctable) social indoctrination .

 

 

Animals don't suffer from this .

Edited October 14, 2011 by granadina

[Psycho]

Psycho, I've quoted above an abbreviated version of your original excellent post - I hope that in doing so, I haven't misunderstood, and unintentionally distorted, what you meant to put across.

 

The reason for using this short version, is to bring out a point that strikes me. Which is, your employment of expressions like "our brain", "your brain". These expressions seem to imply a certain concept - that the brain is "owned" by a seperate entity. An entity which uses the brain, but is something different and apart from it.

 

Such a concept is of course entirely familiar to religious people - they call it the "soul". The soul makes its own decisions. In order to carry out these decisions, it makes use of the physical human brain - in somewhat the same way, that a computer-programmer makes use of a physical silicon chip. But the programmer is not the chip, any more than the soul is the brain.

 

Sorry if I'm not being very clear! But I'm intrigued by what is at the back of your argument - are you suggesting that there is something outside the brain, which really makes the decisions?

Not outside the brain as such, apart from of course external stimuli which effect decision making, my point really was that there are some decisions that don't have a direct stimulus source to choose for the brain the "right" option and therefore the brain becomes a self-contained system that has to choose the "right" option for itself. But it has been shown in the cases of simple decisions that the decision is made in the brain before the person consciously knows about it and therefore can they have really chosen to make it or has their subconscious brain decided for them and then their conscious mind just goes along with it.

 

If the conscious mind had made the decision surely the studies would have shown a subconscious decision being made but not always coming to fruition due to the conscious mind overriding it. However, due to the simple decisions being made in the study (left or right) maybe the conscious mind never needed to disagree with the subconscious due to the mundane nature of the task and therefore in more important decisions it does play a role if time permits it to, but this is just another unknown. (This of course can't be true of any innate reflex response where the subconscious brain completely takes over normally to protect you from harm.)

 

I will give an example, you want to buy lunch, you have a decision between a Pasta salad or a Mcdonalds burger.

 

First you have external stimuli, these will be what the food looks like, how it smells etc.

Second you have internal stimuli, these will be things like your ion levels, whether you are dehydrated and your overall energy level.

Thirdly you have your opinion/prejudice of the food, pasta is high in carbs, the burger is high in fat.

Fourthly you have the environment you are in, maybe it makes you feel healthy or the people around you aren't the prettiest bunch.

Fifthly you have your current mindset (mood) that has been caused by stimuli before the decision was even known about, maybe your boss just had a go at you (therefore annoyed) or you just gave some money to charity (therefore content)

 

These are really the things that make all decisions for you, but there is also a 6th factor and that must be entirely self-contained within your brain and based on something else, otherwise how would we ever be truly creative. This 6th factor must make decisions for us that aren't based on any of these factor, such as choosing right or left, but are we really in control of it?