zorro Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Science can't go from nothing to everything and the rules whereas creation is exactly that. Science can't take you to an after life the Creator can. Science can't find the God particle the Creator made it. Science can't create species and set in-place the engines of evolution, the Creator did. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. Edited March 22, 2012 by zorro
swansont Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Science can't go from nothing to everything and the rules whereas creation is exactly that. Science can't take you to an after life the Creator can. Science can't find the God particle the Creator made it. Science can't create species and set in-place the engines of evolution, the Creator did. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. ! Moderator Note This is not the place for preaching.
zorro Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) No preaching here! This thread asks for differences between Science vs Religion. I offered a few. In any event, Biblical fact preaching is allowed in a Religious thread as is this one. .... Edited March 23, 2012 by zorro
Phi for All Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 No preaching here! This thread asks for differences between Science vs Religion. I offered a few. In any event, Biblical fact preaching is allowed in a Religious thread as is this one. .... You're wrong. You're stating your opinions as fact, which means you have to back it up with satisfactory evidence when asked. You never do. Which means that you aren't participation in an actual discussion, you're just talking and waving your hands. That's preaching. It's never allowed here. This is a discussion forum. This section, like Philosophy and Politics, is meant for opinions. You can express your opinions anytime, but make a statement of fact and you should be prepared to back it up. 1
zorro Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) You're wrong. You're stating your opinions as fact, which means you have to back it up with satisfactory evidence when asked. You never do. Which means that you aren't participation in an actual discussion, you're just talking and waving your hands. That's preaching. It's never allowed here. This is a discussion forum. This section, like Philosophy and Politics, is meant for opinions. You can express your opinions anytime, but make a statement of fact and you should be prepared to back it up. It is all backed and is simple High School Religion 101. Science can't go from nothing to everything and the rules whereas creation is exactly that. Bible presents, In the begining God created the Heavens and the earth. Science can't take you to an after life the Creator can. The passage to Heaven is all over the OT and NT. Science can't find the God particle the Creator made it. This is explained as the goal for the NHC. http://ngm.nationalg.../achenbach-text The vast majority of scientist down to the High School knows this. Science can't create species and set in-place the engines of evolution, the Creator did. Bible, God created the fish Land Animals and Adam. With them God Created the Genome and other engines of evolution. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. Sciences sits oround stiring the Petri Dish vs the Creator makes it all happen. By definition. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. IMHO You may want to dust off off your Bibles off before you make similary rash statements. Edited March 23, 2012 by zorro
Moontanman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 It is all backed and is simple High School Religion 101. Science can't go from nothing to everything and the rules whereas creation is exactly that. Bible presents, In the begining God created the Heavens and the earth. Science can't take you to an after life the Creator can. The passage to Heaven is all over the OT and NT. Science can't find the God particle the Creator made it. This is explained as the goal for the NHC. http://ngm.nationalg.../achenbach-text The vast majority of scientist down to the High School knows this. Science can't create species and set in-place the engines of evolution, the Creator did. Bible, God created the fish Land Animals and Adam. With them God Created the Genome and other engines of evolution. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. Sciences sits oround stiring the Petri Dish vs the Creator makes it all happen. By definition. The Creator can do anything that Science can even create Science itself. IMHO You may want to dust off off your Bibles off before you make similary rash statements. zorro... The bible is not evidence of anything... It's a book written by bronze age people about the legends of gods that were believed at that time. Much of it can be shown not to be true, think about that, much of it is nothing but tall tails, most of it is just a rehash of other religions from that era. None of it can be shown to be true... none of it. Yes it does in some instances describe real places and maybe even some real people but the rest is fiction. It's no better than a novel written about aliens invading New York City and using real people places and events to make it look good, it cannot be supported by any evidence. If you have evidence that can be confirmed feel free to show it but to claim the bible as evidence of it's self is simply not going to fly...
questionposter Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) I don't think a lot of the bible's magical instances are true, but I don't think it all get's pulled out of thin air either. There was in fact recordings of a giant flood, but evidence shows it didn't engulf the world (unless your talking about right after the Hadean era over 3 billion years ago), nor was it necessarily dramatic. The black sea did not use to exist at least as large as it is now a few thousand years ago, so it's likely there was either a lot of rain over a short period and the constant rain accelerated the erosion, or someone noticed a dramatic increase in the water level from what was previously described by maybe local people or a map and made up a story to fit it. Jesus was probably also a real person to, especially considering he wasn't the only one around claiming to be born from a virgin. Edited March 24, 2012 by questionposter
Phi for All Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 It is all backed and is simple High School Religion 101. None of it has any evidence that science would find valid. You ARE on a science forum, so maybe you should learn what science considers evidence. A desire to learn would also show the other members that you aren't here just to satisfy some religious agenda.
zorro Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) zorro... The bible is not evidence of anything... It's a book written by bronze age people about the legends of gods that were believed at that time. Much of it can be shown not to be true, think about that, much of it is nothing but tall tails, most of it is just a rehash of other religions from that era. None of it can be shown to be true... none of it. Yes it does in some instances describe real places and maybe even some real people but the rest is fiction. It's no better than a novel written about aliens invading New York City and using real people places and events to make it look good, it cannot be supported by any evidence. If you have evidence that can be confirmed feel free to show it but to claim the bible as evidence of it's self is simply not going to fly... hello: moo: Thebible is not evidence of anything........... Jerusalem is still there, Romeand the Emperors are still found. Jesus' tomb is still there. Daniel's Tomb isstill there, The Mentioned Ejyptians are still shown, Darius's Tomb isstill there The remnants of the seven churches are still there. ….. It'sa book written by bronze age people about the legends of gods that werebelieved at that time. Much of it can be shown not to be true, thinkabout that, much of it is nothing but tall tails, most of it is just a rehashof other religions from that era. None of it can be shown to be true... none ofit. ……..… No things were transferreddown by ancestry in the Verbal Tradition back since around 6,000 BC. Much of itis stories and symbology so that it can be translated to us down through todaythrough many languages, and still understand the meaning. The Adam and Evestory tells of Man's original Sin. But their never was a rib, a snake, Apple,tree, or even a garden of Eden. This was done so the Original Sin concepts andconsequences could be understood by human primitives and even to some today. Alot is a rehash of the Tora, Quran, because the same God is at the hart of thetexts. The bible tells similar stories as the Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyriansand later the Zarathustraism, …..and many more. Christ (or their equivalent)dying and raised in 3 days is told by many ancients. So What. I suppose that this was so because they all lived in a similar region.It is very much true if you are a new father with a wife and mother in pain and you need some realistic answers to where we go from here. Life is the resolution of reality by faith not Science. Yes it does in some instances describe real places and maybe even some real peoplebut the rest is fiction. It's no better than a novel written about aliensinvading New York Cityand using real people places and events to make it look good, it cannot besupported by any evidence. ...... I prefer story telling of God's Word and faith truths where it is found in no other place. New York tales and most modern music is crap and leads to the abyss. If you have evidence that can be confirmed feel free to show it but to claim thebible as evidence of it's self is simply not going to fly……….... The best evidence is that you are here and your eyes and love for mother wife and child and father…... The bible getsinto these and offers a resolution of death and a relationship with God. Astudy of the 10 commandments I all you need to get a start. I don't think a lot of the bible's magical instances are true, but I don't think it all get's pulled out of thin air either. There was in fact recordings of a giant flood, but evidence shows it didn't engulf the world (unless your talking about right after the Hadean era over 3 billion years ago), nor was it necessarily dramatic. The black sea did not use to exist at least as large as it is now a few thousand years ago, so it's likely there was either a lot of rain over a short period and the constant rain accelerated the erosion, or someone noticed a dramatic increase in the water level from what was previously described by maybe local people or a map and made up a story to fit it. Jesus was probably also a real person to, especially considering he wasn't the only one around claiming to be born from a virgin. hello, que Agree, Many stories have been misinterpreted and need others to help Get them right. IMHO Jesus was a real person (The Son of God) and not God or a God just look into Mary Magdalene. None of it has any evidence that science would find valid. You ARE on a science forum, so maybe you should learn what science considers evidence. A desire to learn would also show the other members that you aren't here just to satisfy some religious agenda. No,No,No, .....This is a religious thread so Biblical ref are OK. No religious addenda here. What is yours?? What concept bothers you the most?? Edited March 24, 2012 by zorro -3
questionposter Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) (The Son of God) and not God or a God just look into Mary Magdalene. Well, not a whole lot of evidence for that, and Jesus wasn't the only person claiming to be born from a virgin in that time period. His ideals caught on mostly because they appealed to a diverse population of the poor, which was and still is a majority of the people. Not that he didn't have any good messages, but I would prefer to not glorify him in the god-like way, which is similar with Siddhartha, most Buddhist don't worship Siddhartha as any sort of god even though he founded a religion and was a very kind person. Edited March 24, 2012 by questionposter
Moontanman Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) What concept bothers you the most?? That you don't have a clue as to what your own holy book says. How about actually reading it, not the small palatable bits given out in Sunday school, read it from cover to cover, read what it says, don't let some juju man tell you what it means. Read it and see what a psychopath God really is. I am really tired of having to show people what the bible says, I can guide you to several youtube videos made by people who know what they are talking about give the scripture for things like murder, genocide, rape , pillage, child molestation, all demanded by god. And Moses never existed the Jews were never slaves in Egypt and wondering around for 40 years in a desert that can be walked in a couple weeks is just plain silly. Edited March 24, 2012 by Moontanman
zorro Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Well, not a whole lot of evidence for that, and Jesus wasn't the only person claiming to be born from a virgin in that time period. His ideals caught on mostly because they appealed to a diverse population of the poor, which was and still is a majority of the people. Not that he didn't have any good messages, but I would prefer to not glorify him in the god-like way, which is similar with Siddhartha, most Buddhist don't worship Siddhartha as any sort of god even though he founded a religion and was a very kind person. hello, que: Surprisingly, I agree with what you are saying and, so to, do many others. Being human was his major trait. Being born of a human virgin is proof of that and His claim to be the Son of God. Many today even claim to be born of a virgin. So what. Was the calendar (a warpage of time) reset for them?? He was the sacrificial lamb for the redemption of Original sin, and is to be the real Messiah one day. IMHO Science doesn't have these. Go ahead, put Hubble to the test they cant find heaven and won't let you know how to get there. Someone to chicken to reveal themselves didn't like my Stattler music and gave me a zap. Do you know who it is?? zorro Edited March 24, 2012 by zorro
Moontanman Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 hello, que: Surprisingly, I agree with what you are saying and, so to, do many others. Being human was his major trait. Being born of a human virgin is proof of that and His claim to be the Son of God. Many today even claim to be born of a virgin. So what. Do you have any evidence of a virgin birth in humans? Was the calendar (a warpage of time) reset for them?? He was the sacrificial lamb for the redemption of Original sin, and is to be the real Messiah one day. IMHO Can you show any evidence of this? Science doesn't have these. Go ahead, put Hubble to the test they cant find heaven and won't let you know how to get there. Do you have any evidence that heaven exists? Someone to chicken to reveal themselves didn't like my Stattler music and gave me a zap. Do you know who it is?? zorro Musical proselytizing is not allowed either...
zorro Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) That you don't have a clue as to what your own holy book says. How about actually reading it, not the small palatable bits given out in Sunday school, read it from cover to cover, read what it says, don't let some juju man tell you what it means. Read it and see what a psychopath God really is. I am really tired of having to show people what the bible says, I can guide you to several youtube videos made by people who know what they are talking about give the scripture for things like murder, genocide, rape , pillage, child molestation, all demanded by god. And Moses never existed the Jews were never slaves in Egypt and wondering around for 40 years in a desert that can be walked in a couple weeks is just plain silly. hello moo very good idea and videos too. it getin me up. for you young fells to. here is a video to get you in the Moses mood. hope you like it. ......... hello, moo: can't get enough huh?? Do you have any evidence of a virgin birth in humans? ..... None other than Christ and Mary. Google: Mary virgin birth. Can you show any evidence of this? .....What year do you have. Google: Cross, risen from the dead, Messiah. Do you have any evidence that heaven exists? .....Yes, Google: Quran, Talmud, Bible, heaven Musical proselytizing is not allowed either........ Good point, but fun, entertainment, point illumination and sheer class are. seriously, do you think that the Big Bang was the instrument describing how the Creator created everything and the rules??? zorro Edited March 24, 2012 by zorro
Moontanman Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 hello moo very good idea and videos too. it getin me up. for you young fells to. here is a video to get you in the Moses mood. hope you like it. Young fellas, LMAO hello, moo: can't get enough huh?? Do you have any evidence of a virgin birth in humans? ..... None other than Christ and Mary. Google: Mary virgin birth. Can you show any evidence of this? .....What year do you have. Google: Cross, risen from the dead, Messiah. Do you have any evidence that heaven exists? .....Yes, Google: Quran, Talmud, Bible, heaven Musical proselytizing is not allowed either........ Good point, but fun, entertainment, point illumination and sheer class are. seriously, do you think that the Big Bang was the instrument describing how the Creator created everything and the rules??? zorro All you are doing is cross referencing the Bible, I'll say it again, the bible cannot be evidence to prove it's self.
Ophiolite Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Someone to chicken to reveal themselves didn't like my Stattler music and gave me a zap. Do you know who it is?? I'll say it was me. 2
zorro Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Young fellas, LMAO All you are doing is cross referencing the Bible, I'll say it again, the bible cannot be evidence to prove it's self. hello again moo: The bible is an excellent ref for the Big Bang, Creation, Heaven, the Creator, salvation, Babylon War, Persian was, the Creators' plans, future events, .... Particularly for this thread, which do you use??? It is His word as Darwin - Species and Copernicus. ...Web of Life, The 10 commandments were even in stone. Which books in the bible do you agree with??? seriously, do you think that the Big Bang was the instrument describing how the Creator created everything and the rules??? zorro Naw, it was me... Thanx, you youngins will eventually glam on to a bit of class. despite the consternations. -1
questionposter Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) hello, que: Surprisingly, I agree with what you are saying and, so to, do many others. Being human was his major trait. Being born of a human virgin is proof of that and His claim to be the Son of God. Many today even claim to be born of a virgin. So what. Was the calendar (a warpage of time) reset for them?? He was the sacrificial lamb for the redemption of Original sin, and is to be the real Messiah one day. IMHO Science doesn't have these. Go ahead, put Hubble to the test they cant find heaven and won't let you know how to get there. Someone to chicken to reveal themselves didn't like my Stattler music and gave me a zap. Do you know who it is?? zorro I don't think he was necessarily born a virgin though either, it could be his mother had told him that because she didn't want to tell him the truth about his faterh, and even if he was it can happen naturally http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6681793.stm Edited March 24, 2012 by questionposter
mooeypoo Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Which bible is it that we're discussing? The pre-interpreted translation, or the original scrolls, half of which were lost? You really need to stop proselatyzing, zorro. We're not here to listen to you preach; when we ask for evidence, we mean evidence outside the bible. If you have none, it's no evidence. Very simple. I can also prove that Harry Potter exists just because it's written in 8 very popular books, and if you ask me for evidence, I'll show you quotes from inside Harry Potter. I'm sure you can see how that's not evidence. Neither is evidence *inside* the bible for the truth *of* the bible. Circular logic might work in the pulpit, but it doesn't work in science. Also, our rules are against preaching, so beyond it being a request for our sake, it's also one for yours. Go over our rules please, and decide if you want to cooperate with the forum *you* decided to come to, or if you don't. No half ways. ~mooey
hypervalent_iodine Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 ! Moderator Note Alright, that's enough. Zorro, you need to learn the definition of evidence. This is a science forum and if you really think that 'Mary virgin birth' falls within its definition and will be accepted by members as such, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place or are sorely misinformed. You're getting a week's vacation. In that time, here's what I want you to do: go and look up what evidence actually is, perhaps a few examples of what that might constitute and heck, while we're at it, maybe you could read our rules and then go on and pick up a few new tricks about how not to post logical fallacies. Since this thread has gone around in wild circles and devolved into the same dribble that got this thread closed, I'm using precedence and common sense to close this one too.
Phi for All Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 No,No,No, .....This is a religious thread so Biblical ref are OK. Biblical references are OK to use to make points about your faith, your beliefs, your opinions, but you can't use the Bible as evidence to support the religious statements of fact you've been making. Since the Bible is the only book that talks about the Abrahamic God, it can't be used to prove God's existence. In fact, there is no proof of that. And there's no proof that God doesn't exist. That's why it's perfectly fine for you to believe in God, and why it's perfectly fine for scientists to question you when you try to say there is proof for its existence. No religious addenda here. What is yours?? I think it's important to reduce the gaps in our knowledge without using God to fill them, even temporarily. What concept bothers you the most?? Of yours? I suppose it's the blind kind of faith you have. It's great for your beliefs but you come here to try and force it on others, to take all the mountains of evidence that science has unearthed and trivialize it by claiming it's all God's work. You take the serious hard work of dedicated, educated, intelligent people and dismiss it with vapid, easy, brainless arguments that pay no respect to the methodology and rules of the forum you decided to join. Why did you join SFN?
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