Forming Network with higher bandwith....

[albertlee]

I have read some networking books now, and I know forming network with higher bandwith is mainly due to the quality of lines and its quantity.....

 

but, when we form a network like this, it is only a local network.....

 

how do we connect this network to the world wide web?

 

or in another saying...

 

How does the ISP connect to the World Wide Web while its customers connecting to him as a subnetwork?

 

Albert

[5614]

well just like your router/hub connects you computer to your family/friends computer, so the ISP's 'router' or server (acts like a router) connects you to all of the internet website servers.

 

so google's server (in the google HQ) is connected to your ISP's server, which is connected to your router (remember router is like a small server) which delivers the data to you.

 

higher speeds on network is quality of wires and quality of server/router/hub and quality of your NIC (network interface card) and eventually the computer itself.

[albertlee]

so, how can I connect myself to all the website servers, without passing through ISP?

 

Albert

[5614]

you dont!

 

to be honest i dont know and have never thought about it, but to be truthfull, if it were possible then someone would have done it by now... there would be home made ISPs all over every country...

 

i dont know but if it were possible it would have been done and be famous... so i make the conclusion that it cannot be done.

[Dave]

The "internet" is a collection of a lot of computer connected together. The word ISP (Internet Service Provider) just means that you get another connection to access other computers. You'll always have to go to a provider of some kind unless you intend to become a rather large node in the network, which is both expensive and rather unnecessary.

[mossoi]

Simply and quickly because I've only got a minute:

 

You could connect to the Internet without an ISP if you wanted to but there's a lot of cost involved. Basically the Internet is a collection of groups of computers of different sizes (networks, LANs, subnets, etc.). These collections are themselves collected into larger groups, and so on. There are a handful of major infrastructure companies who effectively own the 'highways' of the Internet to whom all the smaller ISPs go to gain access themselves. These guys are big and control things in two ways. Firstly, they own the actual fabric of the Internet (the routers, fibres, satellites, etc.). Secondly, they are good at what they do and consequently charge others to use their systems. We choose to use their systems as they are by far the best available.

 

It's very common to connect one PC to another over the Internet without using an ISP but it's not cost effective and not efficient for general use. If we all did it imagine how many individual small 'pipes' there would be., all of them having to create their own routes and send data from point to point rather than using Cache and DNS servers. It would be very slow to use and you would have to know the exact address of the computer you want to visit, rather than its friendly URI.

 

It's a bit like everybody making their own private road to everywhere they ever wanted to go rather than using the existing roads and highways.

 

Let me know if you want more info.

[albertlee]

thx you guys...

 

I am just wondering, I am going to host a website on my own server with a fixed IP, but the bandwidth is too narrow, it is slow to access it.....

 

How can I increase the bandwidth of my website?

 

or

 

For a big website like google, what kind of ISP does it use?

 

 

Albert

[5614]

when you host a site you need a sever. better server = better bandwidth and connection speeds for your site... google uses its own server... not an ISP

 

connecting to the internet without an ISP can only be done by basically making your own ISP which is very expensive and not easy to do.

[albertlee]

so google is basically like an ISP, but it does not its bandwidth to users, instead use the whole bandwidth as a website?

[5614]

NO!

 

google has a server, as do all websites... remember all websites have a server which host the site.

then your ISP connects you to all of those servers.

this allows you to connect to google's server via your ISP.

that is how you reach google's server... similarly you reach all internet website servers the same way.

[albertlee]

umm..........

 

So how can google make a server that ISP connects to it?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I think 5614 is misleading you. Google is connected to all of the network via an ISP - they can't just have a connection to everyone. They may have bought a connection to someone so they can be their own ISP, but I don't know that.

[5614]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+server

A computer on a network that is dedicated to a particular purpose and which stores all information and performs the critical functions for that purpose. For example, a Web server would store all files related to a Web site and perform all work necessary for hosting the Web site. [/b'] Most congressional offices have at least one server that is dedicated as both a network server and a file server. This means that, in it's network server role, the computer is responsible for holding the files and managing the processes that enable everyone in the office to access and use the network. In it's file server role, it holds the central computer files and the CMS database.

im sorry if i have been misleading, didnt meant to be... who is "they" in cap'ns last post? ("they can't just have a connection to everyone. They may have bought a connection to someone so they can be their own ISP")

what i meant before is:

google company upload there site to their server (the google server)

the google server is connected to your ISPs server

you ISPs server is connected to you.

therefore you can access google* through your ISP**

 

*you access googles server (on which is stored the site)

** your computer connects to ISP server, which then redirects you*** to google server which allows you to use google

***this connection happens THROUGH your ISP, you cannot make the connection without the ISP.

[mossoi]

Your PC -> Your ISP -> Large ISP -> Internet Backbone -> Google's ISP -> Google's Web Server.

 

Don't confuse web servers with routers and infrastructure. A web server itself is just a place where the files are stored and parsed, Google still has to plug their server farm into the Internet just like the rest of us only in a larger, more permanent way.

 

Try running "tracert google.com" from a command prompt. You'll see the different network nodes involved in the route between you and Google.

[5614]

Try running "tracert google.com" from a command prompt. You'll see the different network nodes involved in the route between you and Google.

i fail to see what this shows... there is, well see for yourself, what can i conclude from this?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Mine actually comes up with something instead of timing out.

[5614]

can you please send a print screen showing me, it would be interesting to see... thanks in advance!

[mossoi]

i fail to see what this shows... there is, well see for yourself, what can i conclude from this?

It shows that your connection to Google is/was flakey or that you were behind a fussy firewall when you tried it!

 

Here's something similar to what you should get:

[5614]

It shows that your connection to Google is/was flakey or that you were behind a fussy firewall when you tried it!

 

yeah, it'd probably be either my fussy firewall, or router, or router firewall (unlikely though).

 

why would a fussy firewall stop me tracing a route such as that?

its harmless and outbound, so wheres the danger risk?

[aurigus]

As someone who works at a web hosting company I can tell you that google is not an ISP. The definition of an ISP is someone who provides internet access to someone else. Since google does not have customers that use it to "connect" to the internet, they are not an ISP.

 

Google purchases bandwidth directly from the major bandwidth providers. There is no "middle man" who re-sells it to them. To further complicate things, they have a few datacenters across the US which handle your query. I just watched a good video on what it takes to execute your search query, basically it takes only .5 seconds and accesses 1000s of servers simultaneously.

 

So to answer the topic, you *could* in theory purchase your own bandwidth and host your own server. This would only have the benefit of speeding up access to your own server from others on the internet. The minimum you could buy would be a T1, this is pretty slow for today's standards. There are a myriad of "ISPs" that provide bandwidth for hosting servers and handle all of the internet routing for you. But, this solution would cost a lot per month, maybe $1000 per month (just a rough figure).

[mossoi]

Why would the minimum be a T1 - any speed connection will get the job done (excluding dial-up for obvious reasons).

[indignity]

... with high bandwidth sites like google... high costs (very high costs, by my standards) are involved

 

... for someone who just needs "a lot" of bandwidth, you can get 5 gb/day from powweb.com for 7.77 a month...

 

any more than 5 gigs a day, and you're going to be paying at least $100 a month, according to everything I've seen (but I haven't exactly been host shopping in the past few months... and I'm sure I haven't checked everything out)

[aurigus]

Agreed that is the correct way to go about it if you want to host a site. However his question was how to get his home connection more bandwidth. It really doesn't make sense financially to do this when there are so many web hosts out there that do this for cheaper.

[albertlee]

For 5gb/day, how come the web hosting solution company can provide the bandwidth much cheaper than if we get it at home?

[aurigus]

5 GB a day isn't really that much. That is only like 6kB/sec or 48kb/sec or .0048mbit. Raw bandwidth varies in price as it is almost like a commodity these days. But last time I hear it is around $30/mbit with a commitment of 100mbits or so.

 

It's just a matter of economies of scale. Not to mention hosts are usually in the same building that major bandwidth is located. When you pay for your home connection, you pay for the transit from a bandwidth provider usually based in the city, to your house.

 

I'm really looking forward to WiMax. This new format is simiar to WiFi except it is faster and will go longer distances. This could be a last-mile technology that would drastically reduce transit costs. In theory, you or a co-op could buy bandwidth and transmit it using WiMax. Maybe in a few years.

 

Small Edit: That is probably a typo, most hosts offer 5 gb a month, not a day. But even on a daily basis you see how little that actually is.